Which Uspsa rule?

[Rptstoy1]

Which uspsa rule applies to: Only 2 hits applies even if you have more than 2 hits on a no-shoot target..I can't find any in the rulebook..Thanks

[Alan Meek]

Which uspsa rule applies to: Only 2 hits applies even if you have more than 2 hits on a no-shoot target..I can't find any in the rulebook..Thanks

There is no rule in USPSA that limits the number of penalized no shoot hits to two. IPSC has a rule that limits no shoot hit penalties to two per no-shoot. So in USPSA you get all no shoot hits as penalties.

Alan

[steel1212]

To clarify what Alan said, there USED to be a rule where you can only get 2 and they changed that.....the following match I proceded to get 3 on one

[Steve J]

Yep. It changed back to unlimited penalties in 2008.

[Rptstoy1]

Thanks...

[ima45dv8]

They used to be 9.4.2 (paper) and 9.4.3 (steel). Thankfully, they were abolished and sent back to the depths of Hell from whence they came with the release of the latest rulebook.

[coldchar]

Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring.

Jim G

[Steve J]

Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring.

Jim G

Every inaccurate shot should cost you some sort of penalty. It's a "NO SHOOT". Don't shoot it... ever.

[ima45dv8]

The limit of 2 NS's was suggested by someone across the pond based on the idea that since most stages only require, and score, 2 scoring hits per target, then you should receive no more than 2 penalties per target. That was a major shift from how these things were always scored.

I don't mean to imply that the argument against this was based solely on the idea, "That's how it's always been done!". But, it was always done that way for a very good reason. Sloppy shooting should bring great penalties at the range because that's the reality off the range. To score otherwise is to deny the martial roots of our sport.

I'm glad we went back to paying a price for every bad shot we take.

ETA: One of the major fallacies of the "2 NS Max" idea came to light when a stage required more than 2 scoring hits per target. There was no provision for 3 NS's if a target required 3 scoring hits.

[Flyin40]

I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it.

Flyin

Edited January 23, 2010 by Flyin40

[mactiger]

Sloppy shooting should bring great penalties at the range because that's the reality off the range. To score otherwise is to deny the martial roots of our sport.

Exactly so, and the reason the rule was changed back. If you shoot them, you get them.

Troy

[ima45dv8]

Rough......but I liked it.

Flyin

[MTBfarms]

I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it.

Flyin

I had forgotten about that stage. Gee thanks for digging that terrible memory back up.

[BSeevers]

I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it.

Flyin

I had forgotten about that stage. Gee thanks for digging that terrible memory back up.

I liked it

I never understood the two pen rule.

Its like the teacher saying you missed 4 questions but Im only taking 2 off.

[Nik Habicht]

I never understood the two pen rule.

Its like the teacher saying you missed 4 questions but Im only taking 2 off.

I got their logic --- to be consistent in scoring paper targets, whether shoot or no-shoot....

The execution -- hard limit of two, rather than equivalent to whatever the max per target is on a stage -- left something to be desired.....

I get the logic behind scoring every hit on a no-shoot as well.

And, ultimately, it simply doesn't matter to me, which we use....

[Flexmoney]

I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it.

Flyin

I remember that quite well (I was on the timer, IIRC).

He had...by far...the best hits (including all divisions, Masters and National Champs) on all the other targets on that stage...with his G19. Long shots too.

But, he tracked those swingers right into the No-shoots. Ouch. Then he did it again...and again...and again.

[sslav]

Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring.

Jim G

The most compelling in my opinion is the argument for the consistency in scoring. Imagine an arrangements of two no-shoots framing a shoot target. First shooter puts two holes in the left no-shoot and one in the right the other puts three holes in one of the no-shoots and none in the other. All other things being equal, why should one of them have a better score than the other?