Rptstoy1 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Which uspsa rule applies to: Only 2 hits applies even if you have more than 2 hits on a no-shoot target..I can't find any in the rulebook..Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Which uspsa rule applies to: Only 2 hits applies even if you have more than 2 hits on a no-shoot target..I can't find any in the rulebook..Thanks There is no rule in USPSA that limits the number of penalized no shoot hits to two. IPSC has a rule that limits no shoot hit penalties to two per no-shoot. So in USPSA you get all no shoot hits as penalties. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 To clarify what Alan said, there USED to be a rule where you can only get 2 and they changed that.....the following match I proceded to get 3 on one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Yep. It changed back to unlimited penalties in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rptstoy1 Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 They used to be 9.4.2 (paper) and 9.4.3 (steel). Thankfully, they were abolished and sent back to the depths of Hell from whence they came with the release of the latest rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring. Jim G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring. Jim G Every inaccurate shot should cost you some sort of penalty. It's a "NO SHOOT". Don't shoot it... ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 The limit of 2 NS's was suggested by someone across the pond based on the idea that since most stages only require, and score, 2 scoring hits per target, then you should receive no more than 2 penalties per target. That was a major shift from how these things were always scored. I don't mean to imply that the argument against this was based solely on the idea, "That's how it's always been done!". But, it was always done that way for a very good reason. Sloppy shooting should bring great penalties at the range because that's the reality off the range. To score otherwise is to deny the martial roots of our sport. I'm glad we went back to paying a price for every bad shot we take. ETA: One of the major fallacies of the "2 NS Max" idea came to light when a stage required more than 2 scoring hits per target. There was no provision for 3 NS's if a target required 3 scoring hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it. Flyin Edited January 23, 2010 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Sloppy shooting should bring great penalties at the range because that's the reality off the range. To score otherwise is to deny the martial roots of our sport. Exactly so, and the reason the rule was changed back. If you shoot them, you get them. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Rough......but I liked it. Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBfarms Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it. Flyin I had forgotten about that stage. Gee thanks for digging that terrible memory back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it. Flyin I had forgotten about that stage. Gee thanks for digging that terrible memory back up. I liked it I never understood the two pen rule. Its like the teacher saying you missed 4 questions but Im only taking 2 off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I never understood the two pen rule. Its like the teacher saying you missed 4 questions but Im only taking 2 off. I got their logic --- to be consistent in scoring paper targets, whether shoot or no-shoot.... The execution -- hard limit of two, rather than equivalent to whatever the max per target is on a stage -- left something to be desired..... I get the logic behind scoring every hit on a no-shoot as well. And, ultimately, it simply doesn't matter to me, which we use.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I can recall last yr at a C-ville match there where two swingers, probably close to the hardest swingers I have shot. They were about 20-25yds and they weren't available at the top or the bottom, only visible in the middle of the swing. Also there were 2 no shoots on the walls. So if you chased up at all you got no shoots or if you chased down you got no shoots. You pretty much had to take 1 shot per swing and had to fire as soon as you seen the target starting to show. I remember one guy shooting alot, something like 8 no shoot penalties between two swingers. Rough......but I liked it. Flyin I remember that quite well (I was on the timer, IIRC). He had...by far...the best hits (including all divisions, Masters and National Champs) on all the other targets on that stage...with his G19. Long shots too. But, he tracked those swingers right into the No-shoots. Ouch. Then he did it again...and again...and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Why was it changed. It always helps to know the reason a rule was changed. Intuitively the two hit limit per no shoot makes sense but I have been around long enough to know that someone figured out how to make this work for them or it was a problem scoring. Jim G The most compelling in my opinion is the argument for the consistency in scoring. Imagine an arrangements of two no-shoots framing a shoot target. First shooter puts two holes in the left no-shoot and one in the right the other puts three holes in one of the no-shoots and none in the other. All other things being equal, why should one of them have a better score than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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