38supPat Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 I do run short 5" barrels in my gun, with porpoise holes so I do use more powder...thought 9.0 would be low enough but I think Erik is right start lower to be safe. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leong Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Thanks guys. I noticed that 3N37 has a larger range of load for equivalent pressure tolerance (correct term? I'm referring to how much powder you can load before max. recommended tolerance is exceeded) than N350. Should I switch to 3N37 before I begin? I'm starting at around 6.6gr with the Berry's, BTW, way way under what you guys are starting with, and I'm going to Montana Gold JHP as well, since I now know about the plated/jacketed thing. Apparently the HPs have better jacketing at the rear of the bullet hence less leading?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 A friend of mine tried N340 in his .38 super open gun and find that this load was totally inaccurate in his gun (a brand new Tanfoglio hybrid). OTH he tried Vectan Sp2 loads with 124 FMJ and retrieve his accuracy. What could have happened with N340 ? DVC Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Until we have replicators as in Star Trek, every firearm is different. That particular one may simply not like that powder-bullet combo. While knowing what others use is good, you have to load what your gun likes. I once built two identical guns, single stack Supers for IPSC (one for me and one for my then-girlfriend) and with Bar-sto barrels that came from the same manufacturing batch they logged 50-60 fps difference in velocity. Mine was the faster one, so I could get by with .1-.2 less powder to make Major. Why the difference? Heck if I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Hmmm---they were identical but you got the faster one. Good pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Chevalier Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 To the original question I think, here's my data fwiw 7.2gr N350 with WestCoast 124 gr make 172 out of the STI Grandmaster (describes the gun not me I assure everyone) Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Be aware too, 3N37 can give off EXTREME flames...looks cool but can be "distracting" Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 I know what you're talking about pat. I recently shoot with greek shooters that had .38 super "factory" loaded rounds with 3n37. It was funny to see and to hear. I don't know if it was funny to shoot ! It was like bang, bang , BAAANG, bang ! ! ! DVC Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Mine is more like BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, very consistant...Mike has some indoor pictures from a video session we did...about a 3' flame on every shot...woohoo! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikidoGirl Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 I would like to know if 10.0 0f accurate #7 and a 125g. jhp sound like it will work? Or is that over kill? I have been shooting 155g with 7.9 But was told to make my comp work I need a lighter round with more V. Please help don't want to kill my gun. AikidoGirls husban! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 It sounds in the ballpark, but you need to run it over a chronograph to be sure. The particular bullet you're using can make a difference, as some load longer than others, and you can vary the case capacity by changing bullets. My loads with AA#7 were all with heavy lead, and I was running 8.7 gr with a 150 grain flat point. 10.0 is probably the starting point with most 125's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Why is 38super not scored major in Limited or L10. I know some of the Limited class shooters would start crying about mag capacity, but that is a mute issue in L10. Using a 147gr or 135gr with the right powder it would seem capable of making major without pressure issues. Since 9mm has been approved for open major could 38super be approved for Limited,L10 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 The rules require .40 or greater to be major. I don't see it happening. It would obsolete a bunch of guns which would real piss off people that spent 2000 + to have the most high tech gun. In L-10 it might go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 L10 is the one that I'd like to see it in. I already load super for my open gun and there are single stack 38supers available from Kimber and I think Springfield offers one too. If you could get 40 single stack mags that held 10 rounds reliably I'd go with that, but a single stack super for L10 just seems really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Can it? Yes. Should it? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 "The rules require .40 to make Major" is a non-answer. The rules are what we (the group as a whole) say they are. So, someone shows up with a Colt Delta in .357 Sig, or a Kimber in .38 super, to shoot L-10. He's shooting factory ammo, and guess what, he makes Major over the chrono. Are you going to tell him he has to shoot Minor? Because the .40 rule says so? When his factory gun, and factory ammo, make Major? As MD at a club match, I'd be realy careful how I explained it. (And probably let the guy shooting the Delta in .357 Sig shoot major all he wants.) As for allowing Super Major in Limited, let those who want to do so. Just limit them to 126mm mags. then there is no capacity advantage, and those who want to spend money can. Those who don't, won't feel compelled to due to another equipment race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 This would be a kinda funny re-iteration of IPSCs past. .45 single stack usurped by .38 Super single stack was the next step in the "equipment race" after putting compensators on, wasn't it? I think some old skool .38 super single stacks would be cool to see. Maybe Limited 10 should be the "retro" division? DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcginnes Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I can see two reasons why 38 super and any thing below .40 can't make Major in Limited (10). The first is the game reason already listed- smaller bullets means more bullets in the mag gets you an advantage. There is also a slippery slope issue. If something .355 makes major, why can't something .32 at least make minor...If you can make Major with a 9mm in Lim10, why not in Lim...Why not in Production... Anyway, it's the BOD that makes the rules. If you really want 38 super in Limited, then run for office on that platform and see what happens. The other reason has to do with IPSCs practical roots. To calulate stopping POWER the Hatcher index, as well as the derivative Cooper index, used velocity, mass, and bullet diameter. So for Cooper, diameter was part of Power, so you could only make Major with a big bullet. .41 mag was ok, but .38 or .357 mag wouldn't cut it, much less 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ah yes, but even Cooper (turn to the southwest and bow) in the 1970's admitted that the Super, loaded hot and with heavy bullets was a fight-stopper. Can you make Major with .355" bullets and do so safely? yes. Is there a burning desire, or large group wishing to do so. I don't think so. Is the argument extremely esoteric? You bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ignore it or deny the validity of the statement all you want, the fact is the rule states that "40 caliber or larger is required to make major". Show up with a single stack 38 super and want to shoot major.....sorry,can't. That's what you tell the guy who wants to shoot major with a super in Limited/L10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 I know what the rule states. My question is why. I'm not talking about allowing just any .355 bullet, just 38 super cased ones. Factory super can easily handle major pf. So why not let it? I'm just tring to figure out the reasoning behind not allowing it. I know mag capacity is the popular answer, but in L10 that is not an issue. As far as ballistics go, if it makes 165 pf regardless of bullet diameter isn't it still 165 pf. I don't want this topic to end up like the other two regarding ideas about divisions. It's safe to say they got a little off base. I'm simply trying to feel around and see if there is any interest in seeing this come about. If you want to continue discussing the validity of 38 super as a defensive round we can try the reloading forum or you can e-mail me. So far I've learned I'm not the only one who is discussing it. It seems to be a popular topic elsewhere. If anyone knows who at USPSA I'd need to contact about seeing this come about feel free to e-mail me, some of the people who lobbied for 9mm in open for example. They may simply tell me it will never happen, but I won't know if I don't try. Will I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 My guess would be ( and it's ONLY my guess) is that for Limited/L10 division the "rules crafters" wished to try to stick to a founding principle of IPSC...that being "bigger is better" when it comes to bullet diameter. This sport was BUILT on the 45acp. Most law enforcement agencies use a 40 caliber firearm of SOME sort so again I'd guess that the 40 was deemed acceptable. Getting away from the so called "logic" of why a caliber is THE caliber of choice for the rule makers ( at my own choice I might add) the question should really be "why change". The rules we have now suit the division just fine thank you. L10 has breathed new life into the 45 acp . If you've looked at any manufacturers catalogs lately what's the most popular caliber offered in a factory 1911 platform...45 acp. I awlays thought one of the draws to L10 division (certainly not the only or most popular but an important one none the less) was for a competitor to "store purchase" a gun and come out and play. How much easier can it be or someone to go to a gun shop and buy a Kimber,Springfield or Colt in 45acp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 Chuck, You can also "store purchase" a 1911 in super from Kimber or Springfield and there has almost always been a Colt version. The 1911 was chambered in super almost from the beginning, it is only in the last several years that .40 has found a home there. It may not be the norm, but there are law enforcement individuals that prefer to carry 38 super. By no means am I trying to make the .45 obsolete or do away with it. Personally for me it would be easier and more cost effective to load a diffirent super load than buy another set up to load .45. This would just add a little flexabilty to a class that I think has a lot of potential for growth. I don't think it will give anyone an unfair advanatage to anyone that chooses to use 38 super. I will probably still go with 38 super even if my efforts change nothing and simply accept being scored minor. That would certaintly increase the challenge factor a notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Seems we're both looking to "safeguard" our interests here ! Personally, I'd like to see a minimum 125 power factor in all divisions. 9mm being the minimum caliber allowed. Write USPSA....hell, you never know. (error corrected Chris, liability reasons you know !) (Edited by Chuck D at 8:49 am on Feb. 27, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Now that's a power factor for major. 125,000 pf sorry but I don't want to shoot any of Chuck's ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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