missiondude Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I am going to start shooting a revolver in IDPA and I want to know if the Internal Lock on the S&W revolvers can be disabled. I know the rule book says safety devices may not be disabled, but my gun will never have the lock activated, and it is not a gun safety device, rather a child safety device. Has anyone ever asked headquarters about this issue. thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 The lock is not a safety, so it shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDPMatt Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) It's a safety device and cannot be removed per Robert Ray.... Can it be disabled and left in??? Not sure if that would be possible as I've never messed with mine but Robert specifically called it a safety when I asked him about them. Edited January 16, 2010 by CDPMatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Why disable it? Are you having problems with it turning itself on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Duane - you probably know this but... Some people hate gun disabling locks A) fear that they will unexpectedly engage during a crisis, B ) aesthetic reasons, C) moral/religious reasons (as near as I can tell). Someone once told me that hundreds of S&W revolver locks had unintendedly engaged. When pressed for examples or names of those that had had it happen to them they were unable to produce any leads. If anyone hear has personally had one accidentally engage, please tell us the story. Edited January 17, 2010 by Steve Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missiondude Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Why disable it? Are you having problems with it turning itself on? I dont have religious, moral, or asethetic reasons for wanting to disable it, or I would have looked for a pre-lock gun. I want to get a trigger job, and I can get a better one (lighter DA pull) if the lock is gone. While I will have this gun loaded for home defense, I have a back-up 40 auto or 45 auto if need be. thanks for the great replys. I guess I could just have it done, as I will probably not shoot a regional match, and if I do it would probably be CDP or ESP anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Why disable it? Are you having problems with it turning itself on? Bane has reported that in the past..... I wouldn't want one on a competition or carry gun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) Can you have Bane relate his story here, or point us to the story somewhere? Edited January 18, 2010 by Steve Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Can you have Bane relate his story here, or point us to the story somewhere? Steve, Here's a link to Bane's blog where he talks about the self engaging lock. http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/09/n-...-exorcisms.html I think there is an earlier post on his blog too. There used to be a sticky thread on the S&W forum but I can't find it now. The lock problem seems to be happening more with the scandium guns with heavy loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Gonsalves Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 It's a safety device and cannot be removed per Robert Ray.... Can it be disabled and left in??? Not sure if that would be possible as I've never messed with mine but Robert specifically called it a safety when I asked him about them. Per my conversation with Robert Ray, it must work. Now, that said I haven't seen any SO's or Match Directors walking around with a S&W key around their neck. Of course I found out about this after I "Carmonized" my hammer to the point the lock won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycoyote Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Why not just have all new internals put in with the trigger job, completely removing the ILS from the weapon and all traces of it? I know you can take it out of the 1911's but I'm not familiar with revos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Just leave the lock alone. I have 2 627-4 38 supers and one 627-5 38/357 a and about 100K+ rounds total tru them siince 2003 and have yet to have the lock engage on them. this includes my open load for the super that is a 115gr bullet with 11.2gr VVn105 for a velocity of 1650fps and a 357 coyote load that is a 125gr HNDY XTP with 19.5gr of Lil'gun at 1920fps. Leave the locks alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SauconValley Shooter Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Good Morning, I do not see mention of the S&W storage lock in the rule book, regardless of what Robert Ray may have said to anyone. I know that this is a rhetorical question as far as this issue is concerned, but who would carry their revolver with the storage lock engaged? I will have to check my owners manuals but I do not believe S&W recommends the gun is loaded while enabling or disabling the lock. I would not care if the mechanism was removed at any match which I run as I consider it to be a storage device until the rule book specifically mentions it. Steve, Josh Lentz was asking me about this issue a couple of weeks ago because he said that one of his guns locked up during a match. Josh is member of this forum, so perhaps he will post the details. Thank you, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missiondude Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Good Morning,I do not see mention of the S&W storage lock in the rule book, regardless of what Robert Ray may have said to anyone. I know that this is a rhetorical question as far as this issue is concerned, but who would carry their revolver with the storage lock engaged? I will have to check my owners manuals but I do not believe S&W recommends the gun is loaded while enabling or disabling the lock. I would not care if the mechanism was removed at any match which I run as I consider it to be a storage device until the rule book specifically mentions it. Steve, Josh Lentz was asking me about this issue a couple of weeks ago because he said that one of his guns locked up during a match. Josh is member of this forum, so perhaps he will post the details. Thank you, Ken That certainly is what I consider the lock to be, but wanted to know if someone has actually gotten an answer. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Having to have what I call a storage lock enabled makes about as much sense as telling an autoloader to carry around the cable lock that came with their gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) Having to have what I call a storage lock enabled makes about as much sense as telling an autoloader to carry around the cable lock that came with their gun. Couldn't agree with you more. Does this mean that owners of Springfield 1911s are prohibited from replacing the mainspring housing with the ILS with a normal mainspring housing? That would be "disabling a safety". ETA: It's actually disabling a storage lock. The above comment about not being able to disable the lock on a S&W revolver cannot be correct. Edited January 18, 2010 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Can you have Bane relate his story here, or point us to the story somewhere? Steve, Here's a link to Bane's blog where he talks about the self engaging lock. http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/09/n-...-exorcisms.html I think there is an earlier post on his blog too. There used to be a sticky thread on the S&W forum but I can't find it now. The lock problem seems to be happening more with the scandium guns with heavy loads. Sweet! Thanks Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglifter Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) I had the lock engage on my 625 -- the hammer stuck halfway down on a full cylinder. My father had his engage on his 340PD**, while I was w. him to see it. A good friend of mine, whom I have no reason to doubt also had his engage on his 340PD**. From what I've heard, it is mostly the 340PD, and the scandium 44 mags* that had it engage. I don't quite know how it happened on my 625, but the flag was partially up, and the hammer was stuck. *I shot an IDPA match w. my 329NG - by the end of ~100 Remington 44 mag rounds, despite using 222MS loctite on the screws, every one was loose. The two holding the rear sight, that I forgot to loc-tite, were barely in the gun at all, and the cylinder latch screw was fairly loose. I realize that's a bit of a torture test, but given how much stress the frame must be under to loosen the screws like that, I'm not surprised to see locks fail -- I disabled the lock on my 329 before I shot it. It's a ridiculous design. Part of the problem could be that the "flag" is restrained by a very small spring, and is positioned such that the flag will torque against that spring with every shot. **They were the prior model w. Ti cylinders. Edited January 18, 2010 by Aglifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan O Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 You can leave the lock in the gun (speaking on the S&W revolvers) and grind off the cam on the lock. There is a tutorial on the subject on YouTube but not only is there the question of whether or not it will violate the IDPA rules, but if this is your carry gun as well, I wouldn't be doing any mods to safety features at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Really? Sound like if I were carrying a scadnium framed S&W the first thing I'd do is disable the lock. I've never had problems with the lock on my 500 S&W mag in 1200+ rounds, but that is a totally different animal from a 12 oz hand punnisher firing 125 gr JHP's at 1400 fps. We see very few scadnium framed 5 shot revolvers at IDPA matches. Absolutely zero at sanctioned matches. So this isn't a big issue to be sure. Koski Edited January 19, 2010 by Steve Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan O Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Really? Sound like if I were carrying a scadnium framed S&W the first thing I'd do is disable the lock. Koski I would be all for disabling it, personally I think the lock is stupid, we already have trigger locks and safes for the same reason. The only reason I wouldn't is that if you ever had to use the gun in a defense situation, that some lawyer might bring up the issue that I was "disabling the gun's safety systems". Edited January 21, 2010 by Dan O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SauconValley Shooter Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Good Morning, Josh shoots a 646, which because of the titainium cylinder is also a lighter gun. The rest of the gun is stainless steel so it has some weight. Why would anyone want to take the chance at a major match? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 This sounds to me like possibly much ado about nothing. If you're really that worried about both the possibility of the lock engaging AND the possible legal repercussions, both in court and at a match, why not just introduce a bit of blue Loctite into the key lock mechanism? It's still fully functional but now will require a much greater amount of force to turn. (Possible) problem solved, legality maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Much ado about nothing? A gun spontaneously locking up? Earth to Duane! I'd like to get that in writing from S&W. "The S&W legal department feels that this is a non-issue. Owners with lightweight frames that wish to shoot full power ammo should simply coat the mechanism in blue loctite prior to carrying the gun. If the safety device is to be used, the shooter should disassemble the gun and clean out the loctite prior to storage." Edited January 25, 2010 by Steve Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Good Morning, Josh shoots a 646, which because of the titainium cylinder is also a lighter gun. The rest of the gun is stainless steel so it has some weight. Why would anyone want to take the chance at a major match? Ken Hi Ken When you say "Why would anyone want to take the chance at a major match?" are you saying why take a chance on the garbage malfunctioning so rip it out or are you saying why take a chance on being DQ'ed by a tech inspection so leave the garbage in and functional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now