When is a used gun "too used?"

[KyroWebs]

When buying a used gun, how high does the round count have to be before you consider it "too used?" Does it differ between an open gun vs. a production or limited gun? I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts

[Alan550]

It's sorta like a used car. It's not necessarily the "mileage" number but how it was treated and the type of "mileage". I'm assuming you're asking about semi-autos here, so the loads used would help determine the "mileage" or round count factor.

An Open IPSC gun with 50,000 Major PF loads put through it would be in a lot worse shape than an NRA Action Pistol Open blaster with the same round count of 120 PF loads, all else being equal. So there is no "magic number" of rounds if that's the only consideration.

How tight the gun is after however many rounds would be a concern as well as the accuracy and function, as with any gun purchase. Barrel & slide fit, barrel throat erosion and any other wear factors would have to be taken into consideration. For a round gun, most of that could be re-worded to cylinder end-shake, barrel throat erosion and forcing cone & top strap erosion. There again, the PF of the rounds fired would enter into the picture greatly.

Bottom line for me isn't round count, but overall condition, reliability and accuracy, not necessarily in that order.

Alan~^~

[BSeevers]

I sold an Open gun on its third barrel and second comp for $1300. I forget rds but 130,000++ It was a steal and frankly if there is no cracks or major damage guns last a long time. A barrel is a wear item.

It was made correctly and that is a major concern for me. Lot's of smiths out there but only a few know what they are doing.

[twodownzero]

Never. As long as the price is right and you're willing to have it refinished, have it gone over, and have a new barrel fitted if necessary, no gun is ever used up.

TGO's limited gun illustrates this point. Nobody told him he needed a pretty gun to be TGO.

Edited January 13, 2010 by twodownzero

[CocoBolo]

Interesting question. I have bought several used guns, some blind off this forum some after inspecting.

A simple answer is between 2000 and 30,000 for an Open gun and for a Limited between 50 and 50,000. Limited guns just hold up better than open guns. Open guns are unproven with less than 2000 rounds and likley may have issues running. In 9 mm make sure you get some mags that are tuned with the gun. In the higher round counts you need to look hard at the guns condition and allow for the expense of potential repairs to make it right.

I recently acquired an open gun with who knows how many rounds, when you held the gun and leaned it one way then the other it rattled the slide was so loose. It had both verticale and side slop in the fit. The side to side isn't that bad but the vertical is a killer. It is with Doug Jones getting acc-u-rail, when it gets back it is getting a barrel and a new comp. At that point I will have a very nice modern open gun with a fairly small investment, to add to the growing collection of open guns.

[BSeevers]

Interesting question. I have bought several used guns, some blind off this forum some after inspecting.

A simple answer is between 2000 and 30,000 for an Open gun and for a Limited between 50 and 50,000. Limited guns just hold up better than open guns. Open guns are unproven with less than 2000 rounds and likley may have issues running. In 9 mm make sure you get some mags that are tuned with the gun. In the higher round counts you need to look hard at the guns condition and allow for the expense of potential repairs to make it right.

I recently acquired an open gun with who knows how many rounds, when you held the gun and leaned it one way then the other it rattled the slide was so loose. It had both verticale and side slop in the fit. The side to side isn't that bad but the vertical is a killer. It is with Doug Jones getting acc-u-rail, when it gets back it is getting a barrel and a new comp. At that point I will have a very nice modern open gun with a fairly small investment, to add to the growing collection of open guns.

Seriously you can raise your 30K, if that was true I would need a new gun every year, My current gun has a lot more than that and I might put a barrel/comp next winter.

I haven't been shooting my normal 20-25K a year cause of ammo prices and health but I really have shot that level of rds for the last 20 years. I used to buy 4 cases of primers to start the season. Oh the heady days of picking up a case wholesale, in stock!, for less than $80, Heck I shot 10K last year and didn't hardly shoot any majors.

My current gun can shoot a paster at 15 yrds and if accuracy drops I put a barrel in.

[CocoBolo]

Seriously you can raise your 30K,

No doubt most open guns can go 50K if built right and given proper care with out a lot of repair. Point is if it had 49K would you buy it expecting to shoot it for a year or two. Probably not so in the context of buying a used gun you want to get one you can shoot for a while, with 30k maybe you have another 20k before its time to do a make over.

I have an old Briley gun that has bookoo rounds on it, the comp is a little lose in the slide and the slide is a little lose in the frame, you have to look real hard to see the lans in the barrel. This old gun has been rode hard and put up wet, but it runs 100% and can make head shoots at 30 yards, takes a little extra powder to make power factor. I have one in make over now when I get it back this one will go into make over.

A first class used open gun today will run about $2500 in great condition. Some of the older designs in low round counts in great condition can be picked up at the $1600-$1800 range, and a lot of old worn out outdated stuff is out there hogging up shelf space in safes. In November and December on Enos and USPSA it was a major dump of open guns, lots of great guns at very low prices. That seems to have slowed down now.

Limited guns seem to run forever with little or no attention.

[TMC]

I look at them like cars, both are, for the most part infinitely rebuildable unless there are major issues like rust in cars or cracks in gun frames. All the parts on a gun can be replaced of fixed. In the case of a custom gun if it was built right the slide and frame fit should remain good for about 100,000 rounds, if its really bad you can accu-rail it. Barrels can be easily replaced as can fire control parts. How well the gun was maintained plays in here too. I know a guy who has over 100,000 rounds of major though one open gun and it runs fine. Its on its 2nd or 3rd barrel but the rest is ok. I bought a used SV some years back with reportedly 50K through it, shot it for 3 years and put another 15-20K through it. I sold it back to the original owner who shot it some more and it was recently sold to someone else who tuned it up and is using it. When I sold it it was as tight and reliable as when I bought it. I would have not sold it but for a previously arranged deal. I wish I still had it.

From there it come down to how much you're willing to pay based on how much work it does or does not need.

Edited January 14, 2010 by TMC

[bubbadoc]

Low levels of rounds (under 20k) are almost all keepers, even if buying off the net. Once you get over that I would want to inspect it, but would have no issues buying a tight but VERY high round count pistol.... an especially good value for new shooters as you feel your way through the shooting sports and divisions.

[KennyW]

My dad gave me a Govt. M1911 National Match. This is one of the pistols that was used in the 1964 national matches at Camp Perry.

This pistol was built by US Army armorers out of used M1911 frames hand fitted with match grade barrels, slides and associated parts.

The round count on this pistol is unknown. But, it as tight and as accurate as any handgun I have ever seen. It also disproves the myth that tight 1911 type pistols are unreliable. It handles every factory round I've ever put through it. And, every reload that was properly dialed in as well.

[Loves2Shoot]

Seriously you can raise your 30K,

No doubt most open guns can go 50K if built right and given proper care with out a lot of repair. Point is if it had 49K would you buy it expecting to shoot it for a year or two. Probably not so in the context of buying a used gun you want to get one you can shoot for a while, with 30k maybe you have another 20k before its time to do a make over.

50K methinks you have not seen many good open guns. 50k is not very many rounds, you can add 1, 2 or 3 in front of the 50 and still have a great gun if it was built right and you change barrels and comps when they are done.

[XRe]

FWIW... I've seen at least one open gun (with a Schuemann barrel, BTW) with a documented 100K+ rounds on it that would still hold a 2" group at 50 yards. That's at old Major, BTW... It had about an inch of rifling left in the bore.

In a well built open gun, it'll be the barrel that wears out first - assuming the gun's been well cared for. The user's choice of load is very important to that, as well, etc... I would base it far more on how reliable the gun is, how it groups, etc, rather than an absolute round count...

[Sterling White]

One of the first high cap Caspian frames built is still in use at IPSC matches in SoCal. The owner has stated that the frame has been used to fire over 1/2 million rounds.

My first STI had over 150,000 rds through it before I replaced the barrel. The gun is still in use.

It's really not about the gun... it's more about meeting your needs. As you progress through your shooting career you will be given different opportunities to change. So, keep you gun clean and lubed. It's likely to outlast you.

[calishootr]

large round counts on IPSC type gunsdont scare me anymore,thats the nature ofthe beast, its who built it and who owned it and how it was/is taken care of that does itfor me, I sold a springfield custom shop single stack(yeah its that old) that had 50k on it from just me, the person that bought it, put another 25k on it beforeselling it, and as far as I know its still outthere running somewhere

[CHA-LEE]

I think you have to put the relative costs into perspective. If you shoot 100,000 rounds through a gun, at today’s ammo prices, that is at least $15,000 worth of ammo ($0.15 x 100,000). In a worst case scenario you could buy three fully tricked out Open guns for $15K. Since the guns are really the lowest common denominator from an overall $$$ perspective if you are shooting a lot of rounds each year who cares if they last 50K or 350K. Just replace them or repair them as needed when they start messing up. I think its more important to pick a gun that works for you that functions 100% of the time and is accurate. Then have fun shooting it until its done and repair it or move onto the next one.

I think a more realistic answer here is that most shooters are not going to shoot more than 10,000 – 20,000 rounds a year and at that pace of shooting the gun will most likely outlast the shooters need or want for the gun before its really worn out. If you buy a used gun all you can do is inspect it and test fire it to validate functionality/accuracy. Then make a decision on whether it’s a viable purchase knowing what repairs it may or may not need. In the big picture, guns are cheap and easy to get repaired. So if it’s a gun that you really like does it really matter how “Used” it is???