00bullitt Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 If the SN-4s had 1/2MOA adjustments instead of 5/8ths Yeah, not sure why the do that. It's on my agenda to find out why. I wonder if it has anything to do with 5/8moa being the closest to 1mil at 6 clicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 My SN4 1.5-6 has 1/10 mil adjustments. ~.36". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 If the SN-4s had 1/2MOA adjustments instead of 5/8ths Yeah, not sure why the do that. It's on my agenda to find out why. I wonder if it has anything to do with 5/8moa being the closest to 1mil at 6 clicks? I'm with BigJim (a new guy to BE Forum, but I like him already!) on this one... down with Mils! MOA is far more intuitive to sort out. Erik, do you think USO would be willing to change-over the adjustments to MOA? (preferably 1/4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 It is in MOA.....just 5/8 moa instead of half. Half would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Just because you are more familiar with MOA does not necessarily mean it is easier. Here is a good primer on why having scopes and reticles in matched measurements are advantageous. http://www.snipershide.com/node/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 If the SN-4s had 1/2MOA adjustments instead of 5/8ths Yeah, not sure why the do that. It's on my agenda to find out why. I wonder if it has anything to do with 5/8moa being the closest to 1mil at 6 clicks? My SN4 1.5-6 has 1/10 mil adjustments. ~.36". It is in MOA.....just 5/8 moa instead of half. Half would be ideal. Just because you are more familiar with MOA does not necessarily mean it is easier. Here is a good primer on why having scopes and reticles in matched measurements are advantageous. http://www.snipershide.com/node/1 Who cares MOA or MIL. In my opinion thats what the BDC retical is for. Zero it and forget the clicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Alan......I'm just trying to figure out how this reticle can get us a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Alan......I'm just trying to figure out how this reticle can get us a reshoot. And leave to Tod. He'll find a way..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCRET Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Alan......I'm just trying to figure out how this reticle can get us a reshoot. And leave to Tod. He'll find a way..... That is how he got his nick name Re-Tod Ha Ha Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Hey....I got to be good at something. Notice the title under my avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) With Erik Working with the USO group I am wondering if other manufacturers would be willing to listen? [edit for sp] Edited December 25, 2009 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 A friend of mine drew up my reticle idea and scaled it against a 10" target at varying distances for reference. It is designed around using a 200 yard zero. Basically very similar to the Lund reticle just with the broken 50moa outer circle,2 moa dot,horizontal level lines,and a 300 yard aiming point extension of the stadia tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 That reticle looks great. My only question is how do you get that little blue thingymajig to stay still in there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grywlfbg Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Todd, Love it. I'm hoping the circle and center dot would be illuminated (like an EOTech)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Looks great! What load/velocity do you have in mind for calibration? The lengths of the horizontal stadia tree lines would be calibrated to 10mph cross winds at the corresponding yardage, right? Are you thinking 4x or 6x for max zoom? Also, do you think it would make sense to have a horizontal stadia tree line for 10mph windage at the 300yd mark, too? Might be too busy... I could go either way on it I guess. If this gets built, it will sell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Just thought I would muddy the waters a little. Here is a reticle coming out from Vortex Riflescopes this spring. The reticle will be lit (don't know how bright), scope will have adjustable turrets (MRAD or MOA your choice), if their other products are indicative the glass should be first rate, and pricing is $500. Might be worth looking at until USO gets theirs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The Vortex reticle is posted in the very first post of this thread. Its what sparked alot of this discussion and what spawned my idea for the broken circle. I'm not fond of it at all. Too busy for my tastes but at that price point it will sell well. It is going to be a daylight visible dot and only the dot is going to be illuminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) Update Okay, I spoke with John at USO briefly as he is on vacation, but the reticle changes should be no problem. In a nutshell, here are the changes. 2 MOA center dot instead of 3 MOA 300 yard post extending up from stadia tree Large outer circle will be reduced from 5 MOA thickness to 4 MOA thickness Overall size of large outer ring will be reduced slightly, size to be determined Entire reticle will be illuminated like the EOTech reticle Scope will have target type turrents under protectice caps, if you want to dial MOA during a stage you'll be able to (not sure why you'd want to though.) Illuminated reticle should be available in either green or red Things to be determined. Total price (Should be in the $1,150 to $1,300 range) How much brighter the reticle can/will be 1/2 moa vs. 5/8 moa clicks (only important if you want to dial dope though) Things in the works. Working to develop a Cattail/Throw-lever for the magnification ring Erik Edited December 29, 2009 by Bear1142 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) As much as I'd prefer just the dot illuminated, I may be able to live with the entire reticle illuminated... If it's daylight visible and 1/2 MOA adjustments, then I think this scope could sell well. Edited December 29, 2009 by Xfactor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11.43mm Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Working to develop a Cattail/Throw-lever for the magnification ringErik Crenellated? Joking -but this is great news...for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Looks great! What load/velocity do you have in mind for calibration? The lengths of the horizontal stadia tree lines would be calibrated to 10mph cross winds at the corresponding yardage, right? Are you thinking 4x or 6x for max zoom? Also, do you think it would make sense to have a horizontal stadia tree line for 10mph windage at the 300yd mark, too? Might be too busy... I could go either way on it I guess. If this gets built, it will sell!! The tree was calibrated around a 55 at 3000fps, a 69 at 2800 and a 77 at 2650 which all seem to have very close intersects in POI. But unfortunately mine will probably never be put into production as it was just a spinoff of Erik's reticle. I have no intention of adding or wanting a wind hold on the 300 as I have never had to hold off more than the target to get a hit until 400 and further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The Vortex reticle is posted in the very first post of this thread. Its what sparked alot of this discussion and what spawned my idea for the broken circle.I'm not fond of it at all. Too busy for my tastes but at that price point it will sell well. It is going to be a daylight visible dot and only the dot is going to be illuminated. Weird that I would make a phkup that bad when I hadn't been drinking coffee yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grywlfbg Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Overall size of large outer ring will be reduced slightly, size to be determinedEntire reticle will be illuminated like the EOTech reticle Scope will have target type turrents under protectice caps, if you want to dial MOA during a stage you'll be able to (not sure why you'd want to though.) Illuminated reticle should be available in either green or red Things to be determined. Total price (Should be in the $1,150 to $1,300 range) How much brighter the reticle can/will be 1/2 moa vs. 5/8 moa clicks (only important if you want to dial dope though) Erik, Thanks for the update. IIRC the EOTech outer circle is 65MOA and I don't find it intrusive. I would be leery of making it too small because at 1X you may end up w/ a big red (or green) mess. I would prefer 1/2MOA clicks because that's what my other scopes have but I don't currently dial so no big deal. If you can get this thing as bright as a Meopta I'll be first in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dt1 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) "Who cares MOA or MIL. In my opinion thats what the BDC retical is for. Zero it and forget the clicks. Thank you Alan. If you want a scope/reticle that subtend to mils or MOA (elevation clicks also) get one of the many other scopes that are available. There are many to chose from and the quality and price vary from a little to a lot. The reticle is what's important for 3-gun. I really don't care what the elevation stadia subtend to either, they're just holdover reference points for the stage or two that have flash targets beyond 200yds in a big match. Way too many ballistic variables to consider to try to make them subtend to a particular load or bullet wt. Mr. Lund, thank you for working with USO on this scope/reticle offering, that list of final refinements looks like just what the Dr. ordered. Hopefully we're getting closer to the holy grail of 3-gun scopes. Please keep us posted. For those of you without experience with US Optics, their customer service is outstanding and they support our sport (and others) at every opportunity. Happy Holidays to all. David Edited December 31, 2009 by dt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 IIRC the EOTech outer circle is 65MOA and I don't find it intrusive. I would be leery of making it too small because at 1X you may end up w/ a big red (or green) mess. The EOTech is 65MOA at 1X. From an earlier post 00 says the outer circle was 55 MOA (most likely @ 4X). 55/65=.84 .84 x 4 = 3.36 Roughly speaking... break out an EOTech and imagine that outer circle as 3.36X times the size. That's what the outer circle would look like if it was 55 MOA. You can also look at it this way... According to a PDF the inner circle of the old XTR reticle is 6 MOA. http://www.burrisoptics.com/pdf/XTR_Ballistic556.pdf 55/6 = 9.17 So imagine that the circle of an XTR was 9.17X times the size. Using your picture this is what it would look like... The depicted circle in the picture is actually a tad smaller. Bust out the calipers and verify it... I wouldn't mind the big circle to be smaller than 55 MOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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