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New reticle in a 1-4x24 scope


kgunz11

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This kind of leads me to show why I would want an FFP version. The SFP version would have a "fixed" reticle. Meaning the big circle would look like the above picture at all powers.

With FFP it would actually "shrink".

So using the XTR's center circle as a reference...

6x4=24

55/24 = 2.3

A 55 MOA circle would look 2.3 X as big as the XTR's circle at 1X.

This is roughly what the 55 MOA circle with Erik's tree would look like at 1X if it was FFP.

post-3400-1262243704_thumb.jpg

The tree would of course also shrink. So you can't really use it at 1X.

But you wouldn't be using the tree at 1X. You would be using the circle.

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This kind of leads me to show why I would want an FFP version. The SFP version would have a "fixed" reticle. Meaning the big circle would look like the above picture at all powers.

With FFP it would actually "shrink".

But wouldn't it "shrink" the wrong way? You want the circle to be large at 1X to use it for rapid firing at close stuff. You don't need a precise aiming dot when at 1X. At 4X you don't need the circle you just need the dot. W/ an FFP reticle the circle (and dot) would be small at 1X and huge at 4X which seems like the opposite of what you'd want.

I used an EOTech w/ 3X magnifier behind it for my first few matches before switching to the XTR. When I dropped the magnifier in for longer shots I was focused in on the center dot and putting that on target. I didn't even "see" the outer circle. I didn't find it cluttered at all. My point in my post to Erik is that if that outer circle is too small then it might start to intrude into my "focused" sight picture when at 4X and distract from putting the small dot on target.

FWIW I like the size of the circle you added in post 225. But I'm new to the sport and I'm still trying to figure out what works best. That's why I'm here. :cheers:

Edited by grywlfbg
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But wouldn't it "shrink" the wrong way? You want the circle to be large at 1X to use it for rapid firing at close stuff. You don't need a precise aiming dot when at 1X. At 4X you don't need the circle you just need the dot. W/ an FFP reticle the circle (and dot) would be small at 1X and huge at 4X which seems like the opposite of what you'd want.

It's a matter of taste. I personally would not prefer a sight picture in post 225 while at 1X.

At 1X I would rather have the one on post 226.

And at 4X the FFP reticle will bloom up and it would look just like the SFP reticle:

post-3400-1262247947_thumb.jpg

(with the view through the scope magnified at 4X of course)

With FFP the reticle stays the same in terms of subtention. So the 2MOA center dot will be 2MOA at 1X, 2X, 4X, etc. With FFP you will barely be able to see the center dot at 1X power --- it's basically unusable. At 4X it would be about just as big as the center dot you currently have on the XTR.

... it's kind of hard to explain.

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I need to ask John about a FFP version (Just for you RS :P ), but unless you want to pony up the custom reticle fee, and you may want to, you won't be able to get any additional changes. But to have a major scope manufacturer that is willing to custom build you what you (or anybody) considers is the perfect reticle is definitely worth the design fee.

Grey,

I won't be shrinking the large outer circle so much as I'm tweaking it. My original goal is to make the large outer circle just small enough to fit the entire standard target just inside the circle at 20 yards. Fill the circle with the target and out to 20 yards you're almost guaranteed 2 "A" hits. But I hear what you're saying. I agree with you that I don't want to large circle "crowding" the center array, so it won't shrink too much more.

Erik

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After having and trying FFP scopes like the USO with JPJ1 and Circle Chevron reticle,the S&B with CQB reticle and the Safariland with the CQLR its just next to impossible to convince me that is the way to go in a low power optic. I understand different strokes for different folks but the FFP in a low power optic just aint cuttin the mustard for me. Not until you get past a 6x optic for me.

I want my reticle to remain constant. The reticle is simple enough in design to not clutter your vision and field of view. The nice thing about the larger outer circle is that my eye naturally wants to find the center and at the center is a nice crisp 2 moa aiming dot. When unobscured targets are inside 25 yards....all I have to do is bracket and center up the target in the outer circle and break two good shots. If I want to be more precise....I just use the center dot which 90% of the time I find myself focused on anyway since the human eye naturally wants to focus in the center of the larger circle.

I'm sorry....I've put in plenty of time with the FFP designed reticles to know they are an absolute no go for me.

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I need to ask John about a FFP version (Just for you RS :P ), but unless you want to pony up the custom reticle fee, and you may want to, you won't be able to get any additional changes. But to have a major scope manufacturer that is willing to custom build you what you (or anybody) considers is the perfect reticle is definitely worth the design fee.

Grey,

I won't be shrinking the large outer circle so much as I'm tweaking it. My original goal is to make the large outer circle just small enough to fit the entire standard target just inside the circle at 20 yards. Fill the circle with the target and out to 20 yards you're almost guaranteed 2 "A" hits. But I hear what you're saying. I agree with you that I don't want to large circle "crowding" the center array, so it won't shrink too much more.

Erik

Alright guys

I am liking it. Let me know when we might see the first ones coming out. Just might be interesting. :cheers:

Mike

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...But to have a major scope manufacturer that is willing to custom build you what you (or anybody) considers is the perfect reticle is definitely worth the design fee...

Hi Erik,

I really like this reticle, but I still think it would be much better with only the center dot lit. I recall you mentioned the physical limitations of the scope body in allowing the modifications necessary to accommodate this - would this be the case for a custom reticle as well? Are there other scope bodies (maybe with 1-6x glass) that might work with a reticle like yours, but with only the center dot lit?

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  • 4 weeks later...

How about this:

(True) 1x - 6x

Dot is ~1.2 MOA on 6x, 7.2 on 1x

Dots and bars are 1 mil apart, so zeroed at 200 with a 69gr SMK at ~2900, the top of the post should be on at ~700 yards.

Daytime illumination

Resettable turrets

post-8221-126461893081_thumb.png

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So, got to take a pretty good look at this scope at SHOT and I was pleasantly surprised at how good the reticle worked. At 1x all you really see is the illuminated dot and arcs. At 4x you can still use the dot but the reticle is usable for holdovers. Turrets felt pretty good and the glass seemed pretty reasonable for only being able to see inside the conventions center. At its pricepoint it will certainly get some attention. I plan on trying one when they become available, assuming I have any funds leftover from US Optics :D

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So, got to take a pretty good look at this scope at SHOT and I was pleasantly surprised at how good the reticle worked. At 1x all you really see is the illuminated dot and arcs. At 4x you can still use the dot but the reticle is usable for holdovers. Turrets felt pretty good and the glass seemed pretty reasonable for only being able to see inside the conventions center.

Which scope do you mean?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was just scanning over this thread and thought it was interesting about about how 3gunners know what mil/le needs better than they do. Actually that may be partially true as some military snipers and LE guys really don't know as much about there weapon systems as you would think. I was a scout/sniper instructor for NSWG-2 for awhile and myself and fellow snipers have talked about reticles many times. I think the best setup is the dual optics such as an Aimpoint T-1 in an offset (1 oclock) mount with whatever magnified optic you want to use. Switching between 1 power and say 6 or 8 power with a variable scope can become a pain in the ass in dynamic scenarios. Simply canting the rifle is faster and easier. In 3 gun I guess this would be only allowed in open class? I understand the rules state for tactical class that you can only use one optic. That's funny because the real tactical guys are starting to use the dual optics more and more.

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I don't think 3 gunners know what LE/MIL need more than they do per se....but I do think 3 gunners who are also LE/MIL have a better grasp on the necessities. Like it or not....there is a parallel to the game,equipment involved in it and the real world. To many purists just don't want to agree.

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  • 7 months later...

Leatherwood/Hi-Lux has this coming out in their CMR 1-4x24

cmr_reticle_notes.gif

I know this thread's a little old, but I wonder if anyone here has spent some time with the Leatherwood/Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x. I'm new to 3-gun and plan to keep a simple (and cheap) rig, but one of our local groups does throw in the occasional 500+ yarder. Seems like the basic BDC could at least give me a fighting chance on the trans-zipcode shots.

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I have and it rocks! :D

Erik

I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your design. I think it's great that a scope manufacturer was willing to work with someone from the multigun minority. Now I have a hard decision to make on what to get next. New scope or new shotgun.

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  • 4 weeks later...

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