ParaGunner Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Is a inside the waistband holster legal in Production or Limited 10 divisions? I have a friend that wants to shoot tomorrow and thats all he has got to use for his gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yes. I use one occasionally to keep in tune with my carry gear. A couple of points to be aware of: 5.2.7.3 A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further than 3 feet from the competitor’s feet while standing relaxed, 5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered. 10.5.6 While facing downrange, allowing the muzzle of a loaded handgun to point uprange beyond a radius of 3 feet from a competitor’s feet while drawing or re-holstering. (*Would be a match DQ, so tell him to be careful not to let the muzzle catch on the lip of the holster during the draw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Some will use the weak hand to hold the holster when replacing the gun. Care most be taken, as sweeping the hand will be a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Here is another thing to be aware of. Because the gun is so high and close to the body when drawing from an IWB, there is a tenancy for some people using some rigs to slightly cant the pistol barrel inwards just as the barrel is near clearing the top of the holster. This results in them in a position where the gun is pointed at a slight inwards angle - essentially sweeping their leg and hip. The same thing can be even more pronounced when holstering. Edited December 13, 2009 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Thanks again guys! I will go over all of this with my friend before we shoot the match,hopefully he will not get DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Sweeping of the legs is allowed while holstering or reholstering if my memory serves me correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping). 10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’sbody during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping). 10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns. Hands are upper extremities. Is everything below the belt "lower extremities"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) extremities=limbs/fingers/toes. Lower extremities=legs. That would be everything below the belt I would think. Some things I noticed in realtion to this is that the DOH holsters seem to cant the muzzle of most competitors right at their upper thigh. noone seems to have been sent home as a result. Really popular holster too. Edited December 13, 2009 by JimmyZip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept? No Hands are still upper extremities when below the belt. If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ Makes sense to say that the gut is not an extremity, thus DQ for sweeping anything that is not part of your leg, or foot. Edited December 14, 2009 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ. Is this really a concern? This seems so far from competitive shooting it's bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept? No Hands are still upper extremities when below the belt. If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ Makes sense to say that the gut is not an extremity, thus DQ for sweeping anything that is not part of your leg, or foot. It's an extremity, it's below the belt, hence it meets the definition the rulebook provides...... :D I know what they meant --- really, I do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable forsweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns. I'm saying that we know what 'lower extremities' are, and when they are below the belt, it is not a DQ to sweep them on holstering. Your saying that any body part 'below the belt' becomes 'lower extremities'. You sure that's what is meant, and do you think the rule should remain as is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I think the rule means what you think it means..... I also think that the language is a little vague..... ....leaving the door open to an arb..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) I think the rule means what you think it means.....I also think that the language is a little vague..... ....leaving the door open to an arb..... . . . which the shooter is likely to win since the language of the rule is vague. I agree with Nik here. IMHO, a better approach is: issue a warning the first time a shooter uses their weak hand to hold open the flap/strap on their holster & sweeps their hand. Why? Because, the only shooters I have ever seen use such holsters are 1st timers to our sport. Many of them are LEO or Military, and some were actually trained & expected to do it that way. The situation could be turned into a learning experience, or it could be the last USPSA event they ever attend. Further, if you DQ the first time, you are potentially telling an experienced LEO or .mil soldier: "our fun sport knows more about gun handling than your academy/boot camp." Think how that will go over with them. 2nd occurance is always a DQ. Just for the record: I take this safety rule seriously. For example, I refuse to design stages with seated, holstered starts because I am so against sweeping the leg/foot with a loaded gun - even if it is not a DQ. My seated start stages always begin with the gun on a table or in a box (or once placed on the floor between the shooter's feet). Edited December 14, 2009 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? There's a guy that comes to our club occasionally with a holster that has the muzzle pointing at his junk As a guy, I want to DQ him just for general principle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal? There's a guy that comes to our club occasionally with a holster that has the muzzle pointing at his junk As a guy, I want to DQ him just for general principle! Never heard of appendix carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 IMHO, a better approach is: issue a warning the first time a shooter uses their weak hand to hold open the flap/strap on their holster & sweeps their hand. Why? Because, the only shooters I have ever seen use such holsters are 1st timers to our sport. Many of them are LEO or Military, and some were actually trained & expected to do it that way. The situation could be turned into a learning experience, or it could be the last USPSA event they ever attend. Further, if you DQ the first time, you are potentially telling an experienced LEO or .mil soldier: "our fun sport knows more about gun handling than your academy/boot camp." Think how that will go over with them. 2nd occurance is always a DQ. You raise an excellent point, but I don't feel comfortable in a situation where the the 1st DQ doesn't count. I would prefer warning the newbie ahead of time as soon as I see a holster that raises a potential problem so that they are squared away with the rule before it becomes an issue. And I have done so with newcomers using IWB holsters in the past. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 ... I would prefer warning the newbie ahead of time as soon as I see a holster that raises a potential problem so that they are squared away with the rule before it becomes an issue. And I have done so with newcomers using IWB holsters in the past.Curtis Have not yet had anyone show up to shoot a match with an IWB holster, but have seen several new guys with the floppy nylon type. I bring up the rule on sweeping, and how it may be a problem with their holster. Then I pantomime how they can hold the holster open, and bring the muzzle around to get it in, without sweeping the hand. So far everyone has been grateful, realizing that we want them to enjoy the match, and shoot safely with us. I'm happy that I haven't had to deal with anyone sweeping their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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