Inside the waistband?

[ParaGunner]

Is a inside the waistband holster legal in Production or Limited 10 divisions? I have a friend that wants to shoot tomorrow and thats all he has got to use for his gun.

[ima45dv8]

Yes. I use one occasionally to keep in tune with my carry gear.

A couple of points to be aware of:

5.2.7.3 A holster with the muzzle of the handgun pointing further than

3 feet from the competitor’s feet while standing relaxed,

5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation

of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered.

10.5.6 While facing downrange, allowing the muzzle of a loaded handgun to

point uprange beyond a radius of 3 feet from a competitor’s feet while

drawing or re-holstering. (*Would be a match DQ, so tell him to be careful not to let the muzzle catch on the lip of the holster during the draw)

[ParaGunner]

Thanks!

[wide45]

Some will use the weak hand to hold the holster when replacing the gun. Care most be taken, as sweeping the hand will be a DQ.

[Graham Smith]

Here is another thing to be aware of. Because the gun is so high and close to the body when drawing from an IWB, there is a tenancy for some people using some rigs to slightly cant the pistol barrel inwards just as the barrel is near clearing the top of the holster. This results in them in a position where the gun is pointed at a slight inwards angle - essentially sweeping their leg and hip.

The same thing can be even more pronounced when holstering.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Graham Smith

[ParaGunner]

Thanks again guys! I will go over all of this with my friend before we shoot the match,hopefully he will not get DQed.

[waxman]

Sweeping of the legs is allowed while holstering or reholstering if my memory serves me correctly.

[ima45dv8]

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s

body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for

sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing

or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s

fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception

is only for holstered handguns.

[wide45]

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s

body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for

sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing

or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s

fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception

is only for holstered handguns.

Hands are upper extremities.

Is everything below the belt "lower extremities"?

[JimmyZip]

extremities=limbs/fingers/toes. Lower extremities=legs.

That would be everything below the belt I would think. Some things I noticed in realtion to this is that the DOH holsters seem to cant the muzzle of most competitors right at their upper thigh. noone seems to have been sent home as a result. Really popular holster too.

Edited December 13, 2009 by JimmyZip

[wide45]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

[Nik Habicht]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept?

[wide45]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept?

No

Hands are still upper extremities when below the belt. If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ

Makes sense to say that the gut is not an extremity, thus DQ for sweeping anything that is not part of your leg, or foot.

Edited December 14, 2009 by wide45

[Jadeslade]

If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ. Is this really a concern? This seems so far from competitive shooting it's bizarre.

[Nik Habicht]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

Is sweeping a hand legal if it's below the belt at the time it is swept?

No

Hands are still upper extremities when below the belt. If you lift your foot, or knee above the belt, and sweep it while drawing, or holstering, it would then be a DQ

Makes sense to say that the gut is not an extremity, thus DQ for sweeping anything that is not part of your leg, or foot.

It's an extremity, it's below the belt, hence it meets the definition the rulebook provides...... :D

I know what they meant --- really, I do.....

[wide45]

10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for

sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing

or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s

fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception

is only for holstered handguns.

I'm saying that we know what 'lower extremities' are, and when they are below the belt, it is not a DQ to sweep them on holstering.

Your saying that any body part 'below the belt' becomes 'lower extremities'.

You sure that's what is meant, and do you think the rule should remain as is?

[Nik Habicht]

I think the rule means what you think it means.....

I also think that the language is a little vague.....

....leaving the door open to an arb.....

[Carlos]

I think the rule means what you think it means.....

I also think that the language is a little vague.....

....leaving the door open to an arb.....

. . . which the shooter is likely to win since the language of the rule is vague. I agree with Nik here.

IMHO, a better approach is: issue a warning the first time a shooter uses their weak hand to hold open the flap/strap on their holster & sweeps their hand. Why? Because, the only shooters I have ever seen use such holsters are 1st timers to our sport. Many of them are LEO or Military, and some were actually trained & expected to do it that way.

The situation could be turned into a learning experience, or it could be the last USPSA event they ever attend. Further, if you DQ the first time, you are potentially telling an experienced LEO or .mil soldier: "our fun sport knows more about gun handling than your academy/boot camp." Think how that will go over with them. 2nd occurance is always a DQ.

Just for the record: I take this safety rule seriously. For example, I refuse to design stages with seated, holstered starts because I am so against sweeping the leg/foot with a loaded gun - even if it is not a DQ. My seated start stages always begin with the gun on a table or in a box (or once placed on the floor between the shooter's feet).

Edited December 14, 2009 by Carlos

[Lee King]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

There's a guy that comes to our club occasionally with a holster that has the muzzle pointing at his junk As a guy, I want to DQ him just for general principle!

[spanky]

I've seen guns pointed in at the gut when being started into the holster. Belt level, or barely below. Is sweeping anything below the top of the belt legal?

There's a guy that comes to our club occasionally with a holster that has the muzzle pointing at his junk As a guy, I want to DQ him just for general principle!

Never heard of appendix carry?

[BayouSlide]

IMHO, a better approach is: issue a warning the first time a shooter uses their weak hand to hold open the flap/strap on their holster & sweeps their hand. Why? Because, the only shooters I have ever seen use such holsters are 1st timers to our sport. Many of them are LEO or Military, and some were actually trained & expected to do it that way.

The situation could be turned into a learning experience, or it could be the last USPSA event they ever attend. Further, if you DQ the first time, you are potentially telling an experienced LEO or .mil soldier: "our fun sport knows more about gun handling than your academy/boot camp." Think how that will go over with them. 2nd occurance is always a DQ.

You raise an excellent point, but I don't feel comfortable in a situation where the the 1st DQ doesn't count. I would prefer warning the newbie ahead of time as soon as I see a holster that raises a potential problem so that they are squared away with the rule before it becomes an issue. And I have done so with newcomers using IWB holsters in the past.

Curtis

[wide45]

... I would prefer warning the newbie ahead of time as soon as I see a holster that raises a potential problem so that they are squared away with the rule before it becomes an issue. And I have done so with newcomers using IWB holsters in the past.

Curtis

Have not yet had anyone show up to shoot a match with an IWB holster, but have seen several new guys with the floppy nylon type. I bring up the rule on sweeping, and how it may be a problem with their holster. Then I pantomime how they can hold the holster open, and bring the muzzle around to get it in, without sweeping the hand. So far everyone has been grateful, realizing that we want them to enjoy the match, and shoot safely with us. I'm happy that I haven't had to deal with anyone sweeping their hands.