Glock 21SF for CDP in IDPA.

[babob]

Picked up a new G21SF w/ Glock Rail & Single Mag. release using my GSSF certificate. Sorry no pics...camera is DOA.

I plan to use this pistol for shooting CDP division in IDPA and wanted opinions on upgrades for this purpose. For the last couple of years I have shot a G34/$.25 Trigger Job/Warren Tactical Sights with FO front sight/ and True-Grip tape. I love this setup and would like to continue with a similar config. but without the True-Grip Tape.

So, an Ext. Slide and Mag. release (Is the Ext. Mag. release already standard on the G21SF?) / Glock 3.5 lb. connector / and Warren Tactical sights looks like what I need, but I am up for other suggestions. If anyone else is using a G21SF for CDP in IDPA.....what if any mods have you made?

Oh before I forget, what holster would you guys recommend? I use Blade-Techs Paddle holsters currently but was thinking about trying one of Comp-Tac's Paddel holsters.

Thanks.

[lugnut]

Get a CompTech - belt holster. They are more secure than a paddle. I use mine for IDPA and use a 15lb recoil spring with steel guide rod- Wolff if I can recall. I use Dawson F&R sights, a tad of grip tape, an extended mag release, and grip plug -no magwells around that I can find. Vanek classic trigger too.

[Calmwater]

Love my Comp-tac belt holsters for my Glocks. Some of the 21s have ambi safeties, but not all. I don't know if there is a factory extended mag release that will work since the frames are a different size that the 34/35. Not an IDPA guy, but CDP allows for aftermarket tinkering doesn't it?

[lugnut]

Love my Comp-tac belt holsters for my Glocks. Some of the 21s have ambi safeties, but not all. I don't know if there is a factory extended mag release that will work since the frames are a different size that the 34/35. Not an IDPA guy, but CDP allows for aftermarket tinkering doesn't it?

Yes it does allow some mods. Always refer to the rule book to make sure before you spend any money of course. Good point on the mag release- mine has the older style and an extend one works fine- Lone Wolf makes them too.

[Jane]

You might look at a Ghost Rocket connector. A bit less overtravel than a stock Glock connector.

[dkemxr]

Comp-Tac's are quality. A properly tuned tuned ghost rocket connector and some springs can do wonders!

[Duane Thomas]

The factory Glock extended magazine release button for service/compact/sub-compact sized Glocks is the button that comes in the Glock 21 (and non-ambi button 21 SFs). It's just that when it's installed in the narrower frames it protrudes significantly. There is no equivalently longer button for the large frame Glocks.

I strongly suggest losing the idea of the extended slide release. If you shoot with a high grip - and you should - eventually you're going to find the heel of your hand, pressing up on the extended lever, causing the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. Those extended slide releases are just malfunctions waiting to happen.

[babob]

The factory Glock extended magazine release button for service/compact/sub-compact sized Glocks is the button that comes in the Glock 21 (and non-ambi button 21 SFs). It's just that when it's installed in the narrower frames it protrudes significantly. There is no equivalently longer button for the large frame Glocks.

That's what I thought, but thanks for the conformation.

I strongly suggest losing the idea of the extended slide release. If you shoot with a high grip - and you should - eventually you're going to find the heel of your hand, pressing up on the extended lever, causing the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. Those extended slide releases are just malfunctions waiting to happen.

I don't have any issues with the Ext. slide releases on my G19, G17, or G34 due to having smaller hands. That's why I got the SF model of the 21.

There was one instance in 2008 when we shot the Postal Match and there was a stage you had to shoot using your left had only (which is my weak hand) and my 34 locked back with one round still in the magazine. We're still trying to figure that one out due to the slide release being on the left side. I just don't see how I could have touched the slide release shooting left handed.

Thanks for all the replies.

[lugnut]

The factory Glock extended magazine release button for service/compact/sub-compact sized Glocks is the button that comes in the Glock 21 (and non-ambi button 21 SFs). It's just that when it's installed in the narrower frames it protrudes significantly. There is no equivalently longer button for the large frame Glocks.

Duane- not really correct. I think it was Lone Wolf that makes one that is extended for the large frame. I have one.

[Duane Thomas]

Interesting info. Thanks.

You couldn't use a non-Glock mag button in SSP, of course. But in CDP? I don't see why not. According to Glock's specs, a G21 is 1.27" wide. The IDPA box is 1-5/8" deep, i.e. 1.625". That gives wiggle room of approximately a third of an inch. That's a lot. I can only assume the extended Lone Wolf button doesn't take the gun beyond that width. (That was a question, by the way. )

[Jane]

I strongly suggest losing the idea of the extended slide release. If you shoot with a high grip - and you should - eventually you're going to find the heel of your hand, pressing up on the extended lever, causing the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. Those extended slide releases are just malfunctions waiting to happen.

I've replaced the factory "extended" release on my 34 and 35 with a regular 23-style for that very reason.

Jane (AKA slide-stop thumbs!)

[Duane Thomas]

There was one instance in 2008 when we shot the Postal Match and there was a stage you had to shoot using your left had only (which is my weak hand) and my 34 locked back with one round still in the magazine. We're still trying to figure that one out due to the slide release being on the left side. I just don't see how I could have touched the slide release shooting left handed.

Extended slide stops have a nasty tendency to bounce up, from their own greater than stock weight, in recoil and lock open the action with rounds still in the magazine. Admittedly more a problem in 1911s that Glocks, it sounds to me like the way recoil travels through your arms and body when firing LHO makes that heavy slide stop do something then that it doesn't do when firing freestyle with two hands on the gun.

[freeidaho]

I can only assume the extended Lone Wolf button doesn't take the gun beyond that width. (That was a question, by the way. )

Duane, et. al.;

I believe the mag release button on the large framed guns is the extended one from the small frame guns. (Glock)

But to get a truly extended one, one can use the Lone Wolf as you suggest. However the Lone Wolf button, un-trimmed does not meet the IDPA spec of only protruding 0.200". But when trimmed to that dimension allows me to release the mag without changing grip on my G21.

kr

[babob]

There was one instance in 2008 when we shot the Postal Match and there was a stage you had to shoot using your left had only (which is my weak hand) and my 34 locked back with one round still in the magazine. We're still trying to figure that one out due to the slide release being on the left side. I just don't see how I could have touched the slide release shooting left handed.

Extended slide stops have a nasty tendency to bounce up, from their own greater than stock weight, in recoil and lock open the action with rounds still in the magazine. Admittedly more a problem in 1911s that Glocks, it sounds to me like the way recoil travels through your arms and body when firing LHO makes that heavy slide stop do something then that it doesn't do when firing freestyle with two hands on the gun.

I tried putting the Ext. slide stop on my son's G17 but his fingers are long and he tends to press his thumb(s) against the stop, so he would typically run his blaster empty and snap on an empty chamber before realizing that "oops, that was 11 rds!", then have to do a mag change and rack the slide to chamber another. He still has it happen from time to time with the regular slide stop. I can't count how many times this past year a confused SO would look at him and ask "what the hell happened there?"

After much research, I think that I will give Comp-Tac a try this time for a paddle holster for my G21SF. I just recently got their M-Tac for my CCW an love it. Seeing as how I'm use to the Warren Tactical w/ FO front sight setup on my G34, I'll probably just stay with that sight setup for the G21SF. As for the connector, as long as I get a Glock 3.5#, then I can still shoot the 21SF in SSP if for some reason I decide to.

When I did the $.25 trigger job on my son's G17, I originally polished all the affected parts as well as the stock 5.5# connector. Yes I said 5.5#, for some reason he wanted to keep the 5.5# connector instead of replacing it with the 3.5# one. After about a month I dropped in the un-polished 3.5# and didn't tell him and he loved it. It's hard to describe but by polishing all the parts except the connector surface, it made for a very nice crisp trigger. So next time you do a $.25 trigger job try it, I plan to with the new 21SF.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I think the G21SF would make a great CDP pistol. If the trigger is done correctly you will not be giving anything up to a 1911 and you should have faster reloads with that large opening. I have a 2011 I built for CDP and ESP in 45. I could reload it very quickly with a magwell and those nicely tapered mags. Don't shoot any IDPA since I moved but I was thinking of the G21 for CDP. Using semi wad cutters would be great as well. Thanks, Eric

[JonInWA]

A couple of my thoughts here: First, regarding the magazine catch, while conceptually the magazine catch Glock uses for the G21 may be similar to the extended variant provided for the smaller-sized standard frame guns, in actuality the parts numbers are totally different in the Glock Armorer's Manual Parts Addendum, and the extended catch is not listed as being compatible with the large-frame Glocks.

Second, when you compare a G17 with a standard magazine catch side-by-side with a G21's magazine catch, you'll notice that the G21's catch protrudes further from the frame; in effect, the OEM part Glock installs on the G20/G21 is an extended catch from the onset. If you go to an aftermarket part (such as the new extended magazine catch for large-frame Glocks offered by Tango Down), what you need to assess is the girth of the large frame grip and how it affects your hand/thumb position vis-a-vis accessing the magazine catch - going to an extended one may actually be counter-productive if it requires additional re-positioning to achieve activation.

For sights, on my G21 I've actually remained with the Glock white dot/goalpost sight configuration, replacing the polymer sights with the steel ones available from Glock (for the front steel sight, I choose the Trijicon-produced non-tritium version (available also from Glock's Parts Department), identical in profile to the original polymer sight; I find that on this sight the dot is slightly convex, aiding in quick sight acquisition. While I'm impressed with the Warren Tactical Sights I've installed on my G34, the Glock set-up as described has worked quite well for me - and I'm not sure if Scott Warren has produced the higher rear sight required for compatibility with the G21. Alternatively, you might want to consider the Trijiicon night sight, which I've found on my G19 to provide an excellent day and night sight picture, with larger light bars than the standard Glock sight set-up.

For a magazine pouch, for IDPA I prefer to use Bianchi's open top Accumold dual magazine pouch (but be aware that it's designed for a duty belt, and the large rear belt slot can cause movement on the draw, unless it's cinched down by a well-fitting belt - I prefer a Wilderness 5-Stitch model. In a single magazine pouch, I prefer Wilderness' vertical or horizontal magazine pouches, or Glock's polymer pouch.

For holstering, I prefer Blade-Tech's excellent IWB model for IWB use (which I use 95% of the time); for OWB holstering, I prefer Glock's surprisingly good, and dirt-cheap Sport/Combat beltslide (it's a steal at $15.00).

For a slide stop/release, I use the Glock extended part - my thumb position does not cause any inadvertent activation, and the part gives me the option to choose which method of slide release activation to use when under stress. I recommend using the Glock extended slide stop lever for the G37/G39/G39 for the G21, which is usually a drop-in proposition on the G21; it's part number SP 01034.

I hope this info helps.

Best, Jon

[Duane Thomas]

Awesome info, Jon. Thanks.

Hmph. I had always heard that the "extended" magazine release button for the "other" Glocks was just the large frame button installed in a different gun. Live and learn.

I had no idea Trijicon produced non-tritium sights. Also live and learn.

Why would a convex dot be easier to acquire than a round dot? What advantage do you see there?

Scott Warren does sell different height front sights for his sight sets. To know my knowledge (and admittedly it's been awhile since I talked to him about it) this is limited to a higher front sight for those people who hit high with his standard blade, to lower POI. I actually had to get one of these for my G34 when I found myself hitting high with his standard height front blade. If the stock G21 rear sight is higher than a stock G17/etc. rear sight, perhaps applying the higher WTS front sight could zero the gun for elevation.

[lugnut]

I can only assume the extended Lone Wolf button doesn't take the gun beyond that width. (That was a question, by the way. )

But to get a truly extended one, one can use the Lone Wolf as you suggest. However the Lone Wolf button, un-trimmed does not meet the IDPA spec of only protruding 0.200". But when trimmed to that dimension allows me to release the mag without changing grip on my G21.

kr

Exactly! The extended one from LW is way too long! Even if it wasn't for the rules it's too long. I cut mine down and added serations to the end just like the stock ones.

[Nik Habicht]

If the stock G21 rear sight is higher than a stock G17/etc. rear sight, perhaps applying the higher WTS front sight could zero the gun for elevation.

Isn't that illogical? Wouldn't you want a shorter front sight if you couldn't get a taller rear?

[Duane Thomas]

Actually I shouldn't even have mentioned the higher G21 rear sight, since if you're going to go to a decent set of steel sights you'd be replacing both front and rear sights, of course. It's not like you'd be replacing the front sight but leaving the crappy plastic rear in place.

Just FYI, the one time I ever did put a set of WTS sights on a G21, they hit spot-on. If the gun does hit high, though, and you need a higher front sight to lower POI, there is such an option out there from WTS to rectify the situation.

[JonInWA]

The advantage of a convex dot compared to a concave one is in two words: light pickup. It's kind of a broad-brush shared similarity to a gold-bead front sight. In all honesty, it's a subtle advantage, but I do find that it's there. Incidentally, the convex dot is a round dot-it's just one with a bulge to it.

Trijicon actually makes (or made) two non-tritium front sights for Glocks. One was their own proprietary one, a screw-on one resembling the Glock night sight's profile, and the second, the one I mentioned previously, made as far as I know only for Glock for sale through their parts department-it is/was a screw-on front sight, with exactly the same profile (and width) as the OEM Glock polymer front sight. Unfortunately, it is no longer listed in the current Glock Armorer's Manual Parts List Addendum, so it may no longer be available, although Glock does list a steel stake-on steel front sight for the same price, $10.00. Given a choice between the two, I'd recommend the Trijicon unit, if only for the screw-on feature. Users might want to check with either Glock Parts Department and/or Trijicon/Tool Tech or Lone Wolf (or others) for clarification and actual availability.

Regarding the magazine catch, while I'm personally unconvinced of its need in the large-frame Glocks (versus the OEM magazine catch as it comes), out of the available products out there, I'd tend to recommend the Larry Vickers-designed Tango Down extended replacement, as it's a "semi-extended" catch, designed not to be activated inadvertantly when placing the pistol down on a hard surface, like a table or nightstand. Glock also produced a similar "semi-extended" catch, but it apparently is/was a very limited distribution item, possibly restricted to FBI contract pistols only. I have to caveat my recommendation by saying that I haven't personally seen or used the Tango Down product, but it would seem to intuitively make sense for those that do perceive a need to go to a magazine catch that extends further than the OEM part. I'm just not convinced that it's either needed or advantageous, and going to one could force a user out of a divisional classification (i.e., from SSP into ESP or CDP in IDPA, or into Unlimited in GSSF competitions).

Best, Jon

Edited December 8, 2009 by JonInWA

[Nik Habicht]

If the gun does hit low, though, and you need a higher front sight to lower POI, there is such an option out there from WTS to rectify the situation.

You meant if the gun hits high, right?

Back to the 21 -- I run Heinie night sights for the Glock .45 on my G-36, and will probably acquire another set for the 21. Currently the 21 wears Ashley Express sights, and I've got to get the front sight very high to get reasonable POA/POI overlap....

[Ted Murphy]

Duane, et. al.;

I believe the mag release button on the large framed guns is the extended one from the small frame guns. (Glock)

Part #1981 is is the mag release off the G20/21 guns and was then put as an extended mag release on the 34,35, and i think 24 models.

Ted

[shooterready]

The factory Glock extended magazine release button for service/compact/sub-compact sized Glocks is the button that comes in the Glock 21 (and non-ambi button 21 SFs). It's just that when it's installed in the narrower frames it protrudes significantly. There is no equivalently longer button for the large frame Glocks.

Duane- not really correct. I think it was Lone Wolf that makes one that is extended for the large frame. I have one.

Correct, I have one as well. Works great!

[Duane Thomas]

You meant if the gun hits high, right?

Yes, that's what I meant. <sigh!> I'll change it.

Coffee....