Clays / Skeet For Practice

[mike.45]

Dear all,

I am not a natural shot and really need to practice to get to a grade I saw recently in Italy where natural shots and game shooters really had the instinctive advantage. I am hoping I can at least train myself to a degree to be able to compete with the shot to shot times, and instintiveness (sic) some competitors could achieve. I saw a shooter shoot down 6 plates 15 meters out spaced 10 meters apart in about 2 seconds - I can about achieve that time with them next to each other with gun at the trail!

I have never shot skeet / clays / etc and a local established club has stated they would not mind if I shot there with a high capacity gun (if you knew the tradition and clique involved in English up market clay ground then this is quite a feat). I was planning to take a lesson and try and improve my moving target and swinging onto target skills but was wondering if this will help.

The guy who won the Italy comp in limited was a game hunter for some years and a natural shot - can I at least try and obtain these skills to see if they will help me in shotgun comps, or would I be wasting my time and developing contradicting skills.

The actual time available in actually shooting at a 3 gun site is very limited and any practice shooting would help but do you think this type of practice would help as much as I hope it will ??

Thanks

Mike

PS Congrats to Trojan who bought a very cheap, as new condition SX2 today !!! The conversion from Remmys is spreading !!

[ErikW]

Clay target shooting is all about looking at the target and swinging the gun. In practical shotgun courses, I often find myself looking at the steel targets and using less front sight focus for better speed. It doesn't hurt accuracy as it might with a pistol. But I don't think you want to swing the gun for a static target; you should momentarily stop it to take the shot.

Also, I don't think shooting clays with your IPSC shotgun would be any more beneficial than shooting clays with a traditional clays gun.

[D.Hayden]

For trap, skeet you might be building up skills you don't want... leading the target, etc. Trap especially (I think) is more consitancy than anything else. In matches it's who chokes first, you've seen the exact same bird a number of times - I can see it as a concentration excercise, and getting used to the recoil, but beyond that...

[ErikW]

Nah, it's really no problem not leading a target that just sits there, even orange clays the same shape, size, and color as the orange clays whizzing by at 30-60 mph.

What is hard is calling your shot on a static IPSC clay pigeon and moving on even though you didn't see it break. In IPSC, holes and chips in clays are not uncommon and they count as hits, but in thrown clays they are, effectively, misses.

[David Benzick]

Mike,

Cross training is great! If you're shooting your blaster at moving birds, you're aquiring skills you can use on the IPSC range. Have fun and don't worry about the different shooting styles working against you in the IPSC matches. It didn't seem to hurt the Italian hunter you referenced.

Dave

[rhino]

I understand the potential problems some of the others raise, but from what I've seen, shooting trap can only improve your overall shotgunning skills.

Sure, there are things with leads and such, but the key thing you learn is:

1. Get the gun to shoot where you are looking through proper fit, etc.

2. Look at your target, trigger control, follow through

3. Celebrate our success

When you're shooting shot on steel, if you're using sights the way you would with a rifle or pistol, you're going TOO SLOW.

I've seen guys who are good trap shooters with zero practical shooting experience come into a steel match and clean house. Now, they were exceptional in that they had the "go fast" thing naturally as well as the shotgunning skills, but overall I think trap shooting can only help.

Now I should take my own advice and shoot trap!

[mike.45]

cheers for your advice guys,

I think it will help and I will give it a go. I have never really shot skeet etc before and although I am quite experianced at 3 gun shotgun I really think that the control of the gun in sweeping may help.

Every game shooter I know is a good shot, even one good shot who swears that his game experiance is a hinderance...... we will see. I cannot use a under/over as I also plan to use the experiance as a chance to practice my loading skills and 'become as one' with the gun (young jedi) , but I take the point that the skills are the same. Plus I dont own a side by side or u&o.

I am left eye dominant but shoot right handed and hence have to close my left - will this effect the clays and perception with movers ?

Mike

[Singlestack]

I shoot Trap to practice shotgunning. Wanna try something fun? Stand right behind the trap thrower thingy and have the puller pull on your shot. Load up that tube and have some fun!

[uscbigdawg]

Trap, skeet and sporting clays are great training tools. All you need to see to prove that is watching guys shoot 25's from their hip. It's great hand eye coordination and that can directly carry to indexing and transitioning your shotgun to multiple targets (stationary or moving).

I know that shooting trap (especially wobble trap) and skeet has helped a lot.

There are tons of fun variations that can be done too. Like closest to the high and low skeet houses, report singles and doubles on skeet, etc.

Rich

[sensei]

Mike 45,

I always shoot in my Club (with the shotgun), together Rossano Zallocco (Limited Semi-auto Italian Official Team), ..... this guy before start IPSC shotgunnig (only one year ago !!! ............) was National Champion clays shooting (Trap and Skeet !!!), so i think that, in his case, helped him very much (.... also my tipps and tricks ahahahah).

He don't move very well, like a practical shooter (fast, fluid, ecc.), but he have a great practice (familiarity) with his shotgun, he handle it very fast when he engage the targets and another think i saw, he is very very fast to shoot a 5 or 6 sequence (.20 - .21 split time), i think this depend from his clays-shooter past (when he was 12 years old).

I know others Italian shooter that shoot Skeet and Hunting-percours (me too !!!), and we are (before to be shooters) upland-hunters, i am sure this help a lot, because when we go to make IPSC practice, the shotgun handling is just fine, it is a "problem" we don't have ..... i think.

Talking with Roberto Vezzoli, during the European Math, we was remebering our hunting adventures (pheasant, woodcock, quail, ducks), also with Luigi Silvestroni (he is a very good ducks-hunter), we was talking about this, and before this grat match, i remember (during tha Nationals), looking a shooter that made a very long time with some miss, he said "this guy it is'nt an hunter, i think he never shoot to a duck in his life ......"

ciaoooooooooooo

[LPatterson]

mike.45,

I don't know what choke you are using but if it is cylinder to modified skeet is great otherwise try doubles trap. A great reloading practice is to shoot skeet at station 1 & 7 doubles. Load 1, shoot the first bird and reload before the 2nd bird gets by. This eliminates most problems of leading the bird as the incomer is less than a foot. The trap practice works best shooting doubles because the 2 targets are about 45 degrees apart. Standing right behind the trap align yourself to shoot 1 bird straightaway and swing to the other which is also straightaway at the new angle. If you do not slow the gun down/stop as you pull the trigger for the 2nd shot it is almost always a miss. This also allows you to practice left/right transitions as well as right/left transitions.

[james h]

Hi Mike

i do not know where you intend to shoot but we sometimes set up a clay trap and blaze away you are i am sure free to join us. as for target to target speed i do not think clays will help, only practise of the right type.

binocular vision helps with depth/distance perception and most movers/bobbers remain fairly constant so if you do have to close your eye it wont make a great deal of difference.

clays however can be fast moving away/toward you and if you are stopping to gauge their distance its too late!!

beware of adopting the traditional game shooters upright stance though, its very easy to fall into that trap, esp if you have a coach who is trying to teach you to shoot clays.

james

[ringram]

I agree with James,

You need to think about shooting 2 eyes open, it helps with spacial awareness, depth, distance, angles etc.

It will also allow you to be aware of targets at your periphery, making your index onto them easier, faster and more accurate.

Ive also heard that kids/adults who play a lot of video games have above average spacial awareness. So get those Playstation arcade games fired up. I think this has helped me somewhat

As a side issue, I now have an 8 rnd speedloader which I can load in 3 sec. Ill see how it goes over the next few shoots and will make another all going well. (Its basically just 2 stuck together as per Luigi, Italy open team)

Rich

[mike.45]

The modem is now fixed !!!!!

Cheers for the replies guys, I will give it a go. I may have a few problems with the both eyes open stance as I need to shut the left to shoot right handed but it will be fun trying.

Mike

[kurtm]

Mike45:

The traditional shotgun sports are a most critticle part of shotgun training in my opinion. I try to shoot sporting clays at least once every other month or so. It will teach you a quick mount, and more importantly just how close to a target you need to be to still get a "hit". Besides any day shooting is better than the best day at work! Hope the parts have arrived! try me on the AOL account, and I will try you!! KURT

[mike.45]

Kurt,

hullo mate, thanks for the advice - Steve is also convinced and we are going to give it a go.

Got the goodies !! thanks very much indeed, great T shirt as well !! I have tried to e mail your AOL account but got an error message, my machine I think this time. I will e mail you through the forum system. Hope you are well.

Mike