Noodle on this...

[SA Friday]

Your graph is flawed Flex. There are no negative points in the USPSA scoring system.

Scroll down my previous link and read about set theory.

You don't have any points/apples.

Let's try it differently. When you started this thread, there were 3 of 6 beers left in the fridge (you had obviously drank at least three already). You drank the last three beers during the thread. You now have 0 beers left. You might very well be able to quantify the value of being out of beer, but when it's all said and done, you have zero, 0, nil, none, nada beers left in your fridge, and you can't drink that.

[Flyin40]

Your graph is flawed Flex. There are no negative points in the USPSA scoring system.

Scroll down my previous link and read about set theory.

You don't have any points/apples.

Let's try it differently. When you started this thread, there were 3 of 6 beers left in the fridge (you had obviously drank at least three already). You drank the last three beers during the thread. You now have 0 beers left. You might very well be able to quantify the value of being out of beer, but when it's all said and done, you have zero, 0, nil, none, nada beers left in your fridge, and you can't drink that.

Now if beers per hour ratio was used and he drank six beer but spilled beers 4,5 and 6 received a penalty for each one spilled leaving with 0 beers drank within that hr he would still have all the pts as he was the only beer drinkin fool there. His score is 0 but he is drunk..............lmao

I find the math flawed also, no way in hell Flex only drinks 6 beers an hr........... Maybe double that....

Flyin

Flyin

[Flexmoney]

Well, it's not really "my" graph. It's a graphic, and I borrowed it.

What it is, is a standard number line.

Without looking...

It is not an empty set.

It is a set with one value. That value is zero. Zero is the highest value.

[Flexmoney]

Flyin...

I'm more likely to zero a stage than spill a beer!

[Chris Keen]

I find the math flawed also, no way in hell Flex only drinks 6 beers an hr........... Maybe double that....

Flyin

6 PITCHERS an hour maybe ...... no that would be Micah.

[DarthMuffin]

9.2.2.1 A competitor’s score is calculated by adding the highest value

stipulated number of hits per target, minus penalties, divided by

the total time (recorded to two decimal places) taken by the

competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a hit factor.

The overall stage results are factored by awarding the competitor

with the highest hit factor the maximum points available

for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relatively

below the stage winner.

It says the competitor with the highest hit factor, not the competitor in the relevant Division. Shouldn't zero-boy's hit factor be compared to everyone else's (not just his division) before awarding max points available? I suppose if everyone in the match zeroed the stage, then everyone would get max points and it would all come out in the wash.

Otherwise, I think I'll shoot revolver next time the division is empty, intentionally zero each stage, and win the match

[mpolans]

I think the correct answer is, throw out the stage.

[Flyin40]

It says the competitor with the highest hit factor, not the competitor in the relevant Division. Shouldn't zero-boy's hit factor be compared to everyone else's (not just his division) before awarding max points available? I suppose if everyone in the match zeroed the stage, then everyone would get max points and it would all come out in the wash.

Otherwise, I think I'll shoot revolver next time the division is empty, intentionally zero each stage, and win the match

He has a hit factor, its zero and it is the highest hit factor which means he gets all the points. It says competitor because divisions have already defined and layed out.

You can't compare division against division to figure out hit factors or points. That would mean you would do it all the time for all competitors which isn't going to happen.

Flyin

[Flyin40]

I think the correct answer is, throw out the stage.

Why would you do that?? because someone zeroed a stage. That would mean in every match if anyone zeroed a stage it has to be thrown out. There is nothing wrong with the stage. Throw out the stage and it affects all divisions and the entire match.

I think the question should be how does this affect the overall match or sport in general. If it doesn't really affect anything it doesn't matter but if it does then a rule must be added that if you zero a stage you get zero pts. This should cover if a single guy in a division zeros a stage or if all 10 people in a division zero a stage.

Flyin

[joecichlid]

Please please PLEASE someone say something political so we can get this thing closed down. This tread is making my brain ache.

Joe W.

[Flyin40]

Please please PLEASE someone say something political so we can get this thing closed down. This tread is making my brain ache.

Joe W.

LOL, yeah.

So the question is should the competitor get the stage points while zeroing a stage??

Does this really pose any problems?? If so what problems??

If there are no real issues other than the competitor getting points even while zeroing a stage, do we need a rule change?

Though it might give you a headache the reason alot of things like this is discussed is that Uspsa board members do read stuff on the forums and at the very least they can become aware of problems areas.

Personally I can't see where it will affect anything, unless someone brings something up I say just leave it them same. It would also be very easy to just insert a rule that if you zero a stage you get zero stages points.

Flyin

Edited October 25, 2009 by Flyin40

[wide45]

There is a rule.

The scoring program does not appear to follow that rule.

One, or the other needs to be changed.

I'd vote for fixing the scoring program in the next update.

[mpolans]

Please please PLEASE someone say something political so we can get this thing closed down. This tread is making my brain ache.

Joe W.

Clearly this problem was the product of a vast bilateral left AND right wing conspiracy with some help on the side from the trilateral commission, the nazis, the green party, the freemasons, and barney the purple dinosaur. The only way to solve it is to go seal clubbing and nuke the gay baby whales.

There...that should do it!

[Barrettone]

This affects* the score of one of our first ever IPSC National Champions (well...sorta).

Kinda pissed actually...that stage zero cost me the HOA... BTW...stay tuned for the DVD release of:

"5 GM's"

I'll give you a taste of the new release. This is the DVD cover synopsis:

"In this instructional video, you'll get tips from all the great IPSC Champions...you know, household names like Tomasie, Vogle, Racazza, Miculek and Sako. 5 GM's is packed with advice from these seasoned veterans and they're here to give you some of their zen for you to improve your shooting game."

Just wait 'til my do-it-yourself modified home bluing kit hits the shelves...I'll be bigger than Grauffel.

Don't make me unleash the fury:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...617&hl=sako

Edited October 27, 2009 by Barrettone

[mgood]

Digging through old stuff just 'cause I'm bored.

Someone said, "It doesn't matter." That's probably THE Best Answer. It has no affect on who wins anything. Whether the shooter gets all the points or no points, he still wins his division . . . unless he zeroed all the stages, in which case we're back to square one.

The shooter with the highest hit factor is entitled to all the points. Even if that hit factor is zero, IMO, he should get the points.

If there are 10 competitors in a division and they all zero that stage, then they all tied for first on that stage and the all get all the points, or should.

I don't have, and haven't used, EZwinscore. I understand, from this discussion, that in this situation, the program gives the shooter zero points. I understand that is because it's dividing the shooters hit factor of zero by the high hit factor of zero.

And I see that people were taught do do it this way without the software as well.

In this case, it's wrong.

There is a rule.

The scoring program does not appear to follow that rule.

One, or the other needs to be changed.

I'd vote for fixing the scoring program in the next update.

Correct!

The rule is clear. If the program is incorrect, it needs to be changed.

(Or change the rule to match the software, for all I care, just make them consistent.)

[Flexmoney]

Ha...you must have been bored. Funny topic.

[bgary]

There's a much simpler answer which doesn't require program changes or complex math skills...

According to 6.2 and Appendix 2 in the rulebook.... a division with less than 5 competitors shouldn't be recognized.

Shooter should be moved (by the rangemaster, 6.2.5) to another division where his/her equipment is valid.

[Nik Habicht]

There's a much simpler answer which doesn't require program changes or complex math skills...

According to 6.2 and Appendix 2 in the rulebook.... a division with less than 5 competitors shouldn't be recognized.

Shooter should be moved (by the rangemaster, 6.2.5) to another division where his/her equipment is valid.

There's a really quick way to lose customers.....

Especially if you move the 2-3 revolver shooters.....

Clearly there's not enough competitors for recognition -- plaques or cash prizes -- doesn't mean however that you must move the competitor.....

[sperman]

[mgood]

There's a much simpler answer which doesn't require program changes or complex math skills...

According to 6.2 and Appendix 2 in the rulebook.... a division with less than 5 competitors shouldn't be recognized.

Shooter should be moved (by the rangemaster, 6.2.5) to another division where his/her equipment is valid.

APPENDIX A2

Level I and Level II A minimum of 5 competitors per division (recommended) ["Recomended," not "required"]

At most of the local matches I've been to, the division with 5+ competitors is the exception rather than the rule. We'll see 18 shooters total, shooting in 4, 5, or even 6 different divisions. Twice I've been the only Singlestack shooter, and once I was one of two in SS. I don't want to get bumped to L10 or Lim just because there aren't enough in SS if I'm trying to accumulate classifier scores in SS. And I have yet to see a match with two revolver shooters.

But I guess that's why we mostly look at the over all results, even if they are "unofficial." Our divisions, at small matches, seem to just be where one wants to shoot a classifier.