Frustrations......

[mas]

First off, hello....I've been lurking here a little while and really have enjoyed the threads. I've really been needing help with my grip...BAD! It's getting to the point where I actually come home from the range unhappy. Here's the problem: as I am shooting, my weak hand (right hand...I'm a leftie) loosens up and I need to readjust between shots...sometimes it comes off the gun by an inch or so.

I've read Brian's book, Matt Burkett's book, and have watched Matt's entire video series. I've tried having more experienced shooters diagnose the problem. They all say that the grip "looks" right (of course, we all know this means little b/c the grip has to function). I have grip tape on the front strap, checkered grip panels, and a 30 lpi mainspring housing, so it's not for lack of grip as far as I can tell. I've experimented with lots of little adjustments, but none seem to keep my darn weak hand solidly on the gun and strong hand. What I *think* is going on is that as the gun is travelling rearward, it's simply coming out of the weak hand. *ANY* help or feedback would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance and I'll be looking forward to your replies.

[David Benzick]

If everything looks right with your hand postion you probably just need to relax. I'm thinking your putting so much attention into your grip that you can't help but be tense. If your tense there is no way your hand is going to stay on that gun.

My advise would be to forget about your grip and focus on the shooting. Ttry to stay as relaxed through the arms and hands as possible.

Good luck.

Dave

[rhino]

You may be gripping too hard and your hands have to relax (unconsciously) due to temporary fatigue. I agree on the trying to relax a bit, and maybe try not to grip with so much force.

I used to do the same thing all the time. Tuesday twix noticed that I'm doing it again, so I'll be fighting this problem for a while too.

[mas]

well, yesterday I went out and shot 50 rounds where I was barely gripping the gun and just shooting in a relaxed fashion (I can do this with my 1911, but not my Glock as it apparently will have limp-wrist related problems)....is there something I may be missing?

[kimel]

Are you perhaps locking your weak arm elbow and therefore making it impossible for the weak hand to recoil with the strong hand? I gotta agree with David and Rhino...relax.

Question: When you shoot weak hand, do you manage to keep your grip or does the blaster feel like it is going to fall out of your hand with every shot?

Long ago I had a female friend that asked me to teach her to shoot. She had bought a 9mm Glock for personal protection but was afraid of it. She did fine with .22 pistols but with 9mm on up she would get so tense that she would drop the gun with every shot (which is when I learned when teaching someone to shoot an auto you only load 1 round for awhile). The problem was that she was afraid of the recoil and was locked up at the wrists, elbows, shoulders, etc. I proved this to her by putting in a snap cap (unknown to her). She pulled the trigger and the gun was headed for the mat. She eventually learned to relax, that the recoil wasn't going to hurt and became a very good pistol shot.

Not saying you are afraid of the recoil...just sounds like you are locked up somewhere.

You might try having someone mix in a snap cap or two in the mag and see if you may have the flinch from hell. Doubtful but worth checking out.

[Shooter Grrl]

Which gun are you having grip problems with... the glock or 1911?

[asiaeagle]

Hi Mas !

What is your grip like? In Matt Burkett's video, the thumb is placed on the thumb safety. I've small hands, so my grip always gets loosing like yours. I adopt Burner's grip, placing the thumb around the panel instead of the thumb safety. That give me enhencement of the grip and no more drift of fingers.

[mas]

it appears that I'm having the grip problem with the 1911....could be the way it fits my current grip, or it could be difference in caliber....but I don't *think* it's caliber. I asked this guy standing next to me if I could shoot his HK .45 just to test this out....no grip problems. I am not sure if I'm afraid of the pistol. I don't flinch in my musculature (have tested this out several ways) but do occasionally close or blink my eyes (I'm working through this - trying to keep my eyes open and focus on the sights). I'd love to go to some shooting school or get instruction, but don't have the money to travel and don't know of anybody around these parts (West Virginia) that could help. I'll keep trying to get relaxed...I'll tell ya though, when I'm really relaxed, the muzzle really climbs and I couldn't ever imagine getting fast this way....I guess I really have a lot to learn.

[mas]

about my grip: my support hand is so high that my strong hand thumb is just perched on top of my other thumb.

I'd be happy to take a photo or two of my grip if that will help you to help me!

[BigDave]

Is this "re-griping" you're doing on purpose (making a decision) b/c you are reacting to something (recoil) or is it something you've noticed that happens when you shoot? Has it happened with more frequency since you've discovered the problem and are consciously aware?

This is kind of basic, but take you and the gun and face a safe berm and fire slowly into it. A buddy or video on your strong side might help. Try to just fire the gun a notice everything that is happening. How and how much do your sights move? Do you notice any tension? In your forarms, hands, torso? What is your grip like immediately before the shot and immediately after (before the re-grip)? Which hand (weak or strong) do you apply more grip pressure with? Do your hands perspire? Are they dry?

It is my own personal experience that most of the "mechanics" problems I have or had when shooting (at any speed) either disappear or are greatly dimished by simply placing my focus on my sights and turning up my visual awareness.

[mas]

hello,

yeah, I've spent lots of time over the past month focusing on grip...it doesn't seem to get worse the more I focus on it, just stays the same. When I shoot, everything is relaxed with the exception of a little tension in my shoulders (just from lifting the gun up) and in my forearms (from applying a little pressure to the pistol). When I pull the trigger, I see the front sight go up and I see the top of the slide (not straight up, just a bit) in my peripheral focus. As the sight returns and the gun is ready to fire, I notice that my strong hand is still where it was before, but my support hand has slipped/loosened such that there is probably an inch of space between the bottom of the trigger guard and my support hand index finger. It happens this way just about every time.....the grip, at this point, is substantially weaker and although I could fire again like this if I choose to, I will typically get my support hand readjusted and back *on* my strong hand and gun. This is, without a doubt, a fairly consistent pattern.

[SmittyFL]

Mas,

Something ain't right. If you've tried to relax and that isn't working then you might need to try to tighten up your grip a little. A 1911 style pistol shouldn't jump out of your hand like that. Remember about 30-40% of your grip should come from your strong hand and about 60-70% comes from your weak hand.

The only other think I can think of is your load. Are you reloading your own ammo? In order for a .45 to jump out of your hand it seems to me it would have to be a pretty hot load. Even factory ammo should be very controllable. So if you're not loading hot ammo then it must be in your technique. Try gripping a bit harder with your weak hand......also I've stippled the underside of my trigger gard as Matt B. suggests....I was really happy with it.

Keep us posted.

P.S.-Where is WV do you live?

[mas]

heya Smitty,

Yeah, I thought so too, so I've also spent range sessions where I REALLY tighten up on the gun...others where I've barely held the gun....and everywhere in between! The only way that it *doesn't* happen is when I do a push/pull thing, which I hate because it's fatiguing and not as accurate.....among other things. As far as loads go, I primarily use factory ammo (federal red box and winchester white box; both 230 gr). I am not a competition shooter, but if I can get this grip thing figured out, I'd love to start training for it! I'm in Morgantown, WV....wanna visit? Hell, at this point, I'm ready to pay for someone to come over and whip my ass into shooting-shape!

[bountyhunter]

I'll say the thing nobody else has: is it possible your hand is too small for the gun?

When my wife shoots my guns (she has small hands) she absolutely can not grip it two handed in a conventional grip. She takes the best grip she can with her strong hand, but the support hand is lower almost under the gun. It'c close to a one-handed grip with the other hand just holding the gun up, but she gets ahold of the lower part of the grip with her weak hand.

A gun you could try which is ideally fitted to small hands is the Browning HI-power.

Another thing which nobody mentioned: your hands may be getting slick. I'm half Irish and we have pasty skin that sweats a lot. In hot weather, I have a hell of a time getting a solid grip (and I have huge hands). You might try some leather shooting gloves as they stay tacky even when your hands sweat.

[Steve Moneypenny]

Mas, i shoot in the central WV shooters (i'm from the WV area) if i would be more than happy to get together sometime if you would like.

We can fix that thing about you not being a competitive shooter ;-) there is even idpa matches in morgantown in the spring/summer.

i sent you a PM also.

[mas]

PM right back at ya.

[Flexmoney]

Weaver or Iso. ?

[eric nielsen]

Mas

Two things to look for:

1 - Do your grips have that 'diamond' area of no checkering around the grip screw?

2 - Are you using ProGrip? (Prince Grip for tennis players is the same exact stuff & it's easy to buy online, just do a search)

I've had the same problem as you for all the time I've shot. I have pretty oily skin that just can't be trusted to stay on the left grip panel. Any sort of rounded profile of grip makes it MUCH worse for me.

You might want to look for grips that are more flat or square on the side (like on a Glock) or make some yourself. Cover it with 3M pool&patio tape - lots of guys have that setup. Then COVER the insides of your hands - esp. the left thumb - with ProGrip, grip the left hand side ---> <--- to side. Try shooting again.

Problem should go away then.

[mas]

yeah, I DO have double diamond grips.....could it be *just* that?? I'll have to get out to the range and see what happens. Thanks for the tip!

[mcoliver]

Had this slipping problem also but only in the 1911 platform. I usually felt the fleshy base of my weak thumb slip during recoil and this really annoyed me. It was also enough to distort my grip messing with succeeding shots.

What helped was putting grip tape on this area of the grip. Incidentally this is the area where there's no stipling (the diamond thing weher the screw is). Then I also started using Cramer's grip powder stuff. This helped emensely because it gave your hands that very dry but non-sticky feeling. Now I also have a small grip tape under the trigger guard which also helps postion the hand better.

HTH, good luck.

[eric nielsen]

Yeah. Just a small spot on the gun that's not abrasive is enough to make my hands slip. My weak hand (sorry, switch every "left hand" i said to "weak hand") will put a lot of grip pressure on the gun at the spot where my thumb&palm are the the fattest.

On a single-stack 1911 that's right where the diamonds are in your grip.

I use ProGrip or Prince Grip even for dry fire practice. Especially on the weak-hand palm, where it grips just under the slide. Otherwise I don't feel "solid" even just drawing the gun out of the holster. Slip slip slip. Also put a huge strip of 3M tape at the back of the slide on my Super and my Glock, otherwise a quick rack of the slide is really iffy.

Leo can tell you how he does his homemade grip surface - I could *almost* shoot that gun without chalking up my hands with ProGrip. Mix of epoxy and some abrasive silica, I think.

People say 'what would you do if you were a cop' & I say that I'd carry ProGrip in my cop pocket, next to my cop pen and my cop sunglasses. Big "if"

PS - It was Kevin IPSC supercop told me about Prince Grip. Ask him how's the weather on Clearwater Beach...

[mas]

well, I put on my old grips that came with the pistol....they're not pretty, but they're darn grippy! We'll see how they do at the range tomorrow. I'll be sure to report back for those who have been kind enough to lend suggestions.

[10ring]

I have had to work through the same sort of problem over the past 9 months. Everyone has given good advice here. However, there was a couple of "pieces" that really did it for me. One is something Brian shared with me over this forum. "Get behind the gun". There is a picture in his book which was taken viewing the grip from the bottom of the gun. If you will carefully look at that picture and notice that the support hand actually comes past the grip panel slightly, maybe even touching the mainspring housing. The other thing I picked up from one of Ron Avery's videos. (Bought that from be too) In the first video he talks about locking the wrist separate from gripping. I think a lot of people just naturally lock the wrist with increased grip, but not me; and it sounds like you may be experiencing this too. When you don't lock your strong hand wrist, (assuming your elbows aren't locked, but your support hand wrist is locked), and when the gun fires, it has a natural tendency to rotate under recoil thereby stripping the gun and strong hand from the support hand. (this is because the bore is above the point of retention).

Don't give up yet. It's really cool when it all comes together. I'm still working on consistancy. I think I had taught myself so many bad habits and it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Good luck!

[mas]

thanks for your observations! I'll be trying them out today.

[Rocket]

10 ring mentioned what I was going to say , and that is get behind the gun with both hands. I like for feel some pressure at the base of my weak hand almost like I'm in a position to push the gun straight forward. To get a good nuetral grip you really need to have the same feeling with both hands. Matt does this thing in his videos where he will push backward against your hands simulating the push of the gun. You should feel like you can resist this push and feel steady. The PIP joint of the index finger of the weak hand should fit snugly under the trigger guard and stay there. Make sure your hands are melded together with the fingers of the weak hand.