2010 LaRue Tactical Multi-Gun Match

[AggiePhil]

The raffel ty gentry & myself put together for tate moots was for 500 tickets for the pistol & 500 for the Larue rifle. We hope to sell them all by Ft. benning as to raise more money for tate moots. I did not realize they were selling tickets at the match for the same drawing. I will get all the stubs from greg & add them to our stubs & will draw for them at benning.

LEOShorty was going around to every stage (and standing around the results board/BBQ stage and the end) with a man purse and big attached sign that said the tickets being sold were for the scope and 1911. Was pretty clear what the raffle was for. And there was no mention of a LaRue rifle...just the scope (which has already been drawn for) and a 1911.

[chainring]

I had a blast, and stage 7 was my favorite! I shot it late Sunday after it was a "for fun" stage and did surprisingly well. The ROs on that stage were really patient and helpful, even late in the day.

Had a blast, just like last year!

It was my sister's first three-gun, and she had a good time. We've been comparing notes ever since and will both be much better prepared next year!

[chainring]

Oh, yeah, I bought four of the scope/1911 raffle tickets, too. Will be happy to hear from whoever draws my name...and I'll take a Larue rifle if I HAVE to!

[PaCoTx]

This was my second 3 gun match, this year's and last year's LaRue. It was a lot of fun and everyone in our squad was glad to shoot Stage 7 on Sunday, even after we were told it would not count. We went from disappointment when we heard it was "canceled" to excited when we headed over after we finished stage 2 and saw an open Stage and three RO's looking for shooters. What a great stage. It felt like a great accomplishment to make it to the top of the hill and at least engage the long range targets before time was called.

One suggested way on making the reset of the stage (or any linear stage) go faster is for several tapers to go with the ROs and shooter so they could start taping from the far end of the stage. This cut our reset time by several minutes from when we were helping tape on Saturday.

As a beginner, I appreciated the help the RO's gave such as calling shots and giving a heads up if we were about to forget a target. It would have been easy to let every one go through a stage and have procedurals pile up. Also, thanks to those with more experience taking the time to lend advice and explain why they do what they do. It was great seeing how the pros picked up time on stages that were "athletic" and see that hustle can be mental as well as physical.

I say keep throwing a few new twists every year. Trying to guess what we might have to do makes training for the match interesting.

I would second the comment about having a padded drop mat or table for stage 5. I saw some dumped pistols bounce pretty high off the spent shotgun shells.

Finally, I was also asked to suggest not having it on Mother's Day weekend.

Thanks to all who put this match together. You did a great job and I can't wait until next year.

Edited May 12, 2010 by PaCoTx

[LChico]

Please don't dumb down the stages so that "everyone" can finish. You want to finish better? Practice. Train. Shoot more matches. We need more matches that aren't "shooter welfare". I, personally, enjoyed the technical aspect of this match thoroughly. Often times matches are a lot of run and gun but it doesn't feel like it's a real CHALLENGE. Going from pistol work to offhand 250y shots? Yeah.. that was good stuff. Shooting from a variety of positions offhand .... I love it. I hadn't practiced that. I had to reach WAY down into my toolbox to find the right way to get that one done. I applaud the MD for designing things that would make us work for it.

A

I agree with this post. Don't dumb it down. I felt thoroughly challenged. It wouldnt have been as much fun if it was just a hose em down match. I know what mistakes I made and where I could have improved, and where I did good. No reason to make it easier.

My dad and little brother came out and shot with us. It was their first big match ever. They did better then some of the experienced shooters I saw on some of the hardest stuff. We all had a blast.

HELL, You want to talk about Iron MAN!! My little brother shot it all with an iron sighted AK and an 870 on purpose!!

Great job guys.

ETA: I really want to see the results of Stage 7!!

I am currently near Birmingham AL, still have over 6 hours of driving tomorrow. Nearly impossible to enter the scores while driving down the interstate (1160 miles one way). I expect to be home tomorrow & I will post them as soon as I can score them.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

[bigbear_98]

ETA: I really want to see the results of Stage 7!!

I am currently near Birmingham AL, still have over 6 hours of driving tomorrow. Nearly impossible to enter the scores while driving down the interstate (1160 miles one way). I expect to be home tomorrow & I will post them as soon as I can score them.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

No worries Linda!! I just want to see how I compared to the Taranator... Thanks for doing such a great job!

[TXMXRACER]

I just want to thank everyone involved with putting on the match and all of the sponsors. I helped RO stage 3 and enjoyed watching everyone have a good time.

Shane

[Kyle O]

Please don't dumb down the stages so that "everyone" can finish. You want to finish better? Practice. Train. Shoot more matches. We need more matches that aren't "shooter welfare". I, personally, enjoyed the technical aspect of this match thoroughly. Often times matches are a lot of run and gun but it doesn't feel like it's a real CHALLENGE. Going from pistol work to offhand 250y shots? Yeah.. that was good stuff. Shooting from a variety of positions offhand .... I love it. I hadn't practiced that. I had to reach WAY down into my toolbox to find the right way to get that one done. I applaud the MD for designing things that would make us work for it.

A

I agree with this post. Don't dumb it down. I felt thoroughly challenged. It wouldnt have been as much fun if it was just a hose em down match. I know what mistakes I made and where I could have improved, and where I did good. No reason to make it easier.

My dad and little brother came out and shot with us. It was their first big match ever. They did better then some of the experienced shooters I saw on some of the hardest stuff. We all had a blast.

HELL, You want to talk about Iron MAN!! My little brother shot it all with an iron sighted AK and an 870 on purpose!!

Great job guys.

ETA: I really want to see the results of Stage 7!!

I am currently near Birmingham AL, still have over 6 hours of driving tomorrow. Nearly impossible to enter the scores while driving down the interstate (1160 miles one way). I expect to be home tomorrow & I will post them as soon as I can score them.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

Nearly immpossible! C'mon Linda, I think you could do it.

That's what separates Linda from all the rest.

[ShootfastRunfaster]

Please don't dumb down the stages so that "everyone" can finish. You want to finish better? Practice. Train. Shoot more matches. We need more matches that aren't "shooter welfare". I, personally, enjoyed the technical aspect of this match thoroughly. Often times matches are a lot of run and gun but it doesn't feel like it's a real CHALLENGE. Going from pistol work to offhand 250y shots? Yeah.. that was good stuff. Shooting from a variety of positions offhand .... I love it. I hadn't practiced that. I had to reach WAY down into my toolbox to find the right way to get that one done. I applaud the MD for designing things that would make us work for it.

A

ausshooter hit it right on the head. It has the word "tactical" in the title for a reason. This match had a technical proficiency aspect that is found in very few matches. Some are a bit unrealistic I agree (250 yd support shoulder shots), but they pushed your limits and and working on those skills will only make you a better all around shooter. I enjoyed every stage of the match with stage 7 being my favorite. It hurt my finish a bit when it was thrown out as I was able to run a half minute under par and have only 4.5 seconds in penalties. I have no problem with it being thrown out. Were it not, we would still have been shooting at 1800 on Sunday instead of walking away with the outstanding prizes from the tables.

Constructive advice:

1. RO's have a tough VOLUNTARY job, and it is hard to find good ones. There were several experienced RO's out working the stages. At the same time

there were a few that acted like talking LOUDLY made it sound like you knew what they were doing. There were some inconsistencies on firearms handling

issues and stage descriptions. Let's stay straight on this, there were no BAD RO's that I interacted with. There could have been more guidelines for

the RO's to follow.

2. Designated area's to preload the magazines on shotguns. It was a little bit haphazard. Those that have been in the shooting sports for a while

should know how to safely do this, but apparently some do not. A slightly more structured approach was needed on a couple of stages.

3. 180 second par time. It was 180 so the match could be run in 2 days. I was fortunate enough to not time out on any stages, but some of the shooters

in my squad would have benefitted greatly if the par on a few stages was moved to 210 or 240. The fast guys will still be fast, but the experience

gained by the slower shooters being able to completely shoot a stage would help them learn what they need to improve on.

(Makes a good argument for a THREE day match with 9 stages.)

Hats off to all the staff for making things go as smoothly as they did. You don't realize how tough it is to put on a match of this caliber until you are behind the scenes and are putting forth the effort to make it work.

+1 Trapr. 150 gr. bullets put a LaRue down each time it was hit all weekend.

[LChico]

Okay - in defense of Greg, let me say that I sat through the staff meeting we had Thursday before the match. A few shooters reported on this thread that some stages asked you to point muzzles down & others up. Greg could not have been more clear that he wanted everyone to consistently ask that they point down. He talked about clearing weapons, grounding them, and pre-loading (especially shotguns). He took questions from a few RO's when they were not clear on what he expected. Then I spoke about 3 specific scoring issues. . . and found over the next three days that 2 of the points I mentioned were consistently ignored by half the stages. When any match plans a dramatic departure from procedures that volunteers are used to, I think we need more than a one hour meeting. Prior to the first few Ft Benning matches, I created an RO Manual that covered what was expected in great detail. Prior to Summer Blast pistol matches, Larry Houck used to send out a lengthy staff briefing via email. When we got to the match, the staff meeting is a refresher, rather than a new learning experience for the staff.

Greg did have stage diagrams. We used them for set-up. He decided not to post them online. He chose not to have a match booklet. I agree that it would have been useful and is expected by the shooters. If I had a $5 bill for everyone who asked me for a match booklet, I would be on my way to Las Vegas right now.

I completely disagree with everyone who thinks changing the par time to 240 would have been the way to "fix" Stage 7. Years of time management at major matches tells me that there are 3 reasons stages run too long: It takes too long to shoot (stage is too complex), it takes too long to re-set, or both. Stage 7 was both. Before the match, you can modify a complex stage that will run too long by eliminating targets or shooting positions. Or, you can save your complex stage and the fun factor by scheduling it into 2 time periods (pretend you have a 9 stage match, and one of your 8 stages takes up 2 time slots). After the match starts, the only thing you can fix is the re-set time. Giving people an additional minute to shoot it may have increased the satisfaction of the shooter, but would have done nothing to decrease the back log. Throwing more staff at the problem may work, following the shooter & re-setting (as someone else suggested) is helpful, or using staff on ATV's to run out & re-set targets at far distances can speed things up.

That said, the match was very successful in a number of ways. Everyone else has already discussed the food, the prize table, the fabulous location, the great weather, and the parts of the challenge that they enjoyed. I'd like to add the great people who were there: I got to spend some time with old friends and made a number of new ones. Hard to beat that.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

Edited May 12, 2010 by LChico

[SGDM]

Anyone care to share the story about Stage 7?

Our Squad did not get to shoot on Sunday , and I was to worn down to even go and look it over. But I was told=

The max time was 180 seconds and 80% of the shooters could not manage to make it to the end. I don't mind a long stage just the max time would have had to change to 240 like at Blue Ridge before most of the squads had shot it.

I did learn some new tricks that will help me

Stage 7 had nothing to do with the Par Time or the fact that shooters were maxing out. I walked that stage and shot it in 138 seconds, we reset, and ready for next shooter in under 5 minutes and that is the standard and we all agreed that it would go. I knew it would be a tough course and that was my intent.

After de-briefing the RO's on Sat and being 3 Squads behind and I watched it very close on Sun morning. I met with Rick Porter and Linda for their input and I made the decision.

Greg

[SGDM]

I also want to thank Paul Cerami for all of his hard work and dedication, he is responsible for the prize table. Paul volunteered last year to handle the Sponsorship for the match and he had something come up at the last minute and could not attend. Paul is an LEO in the DFW Metro and TTPOA board member and did a great job getting Sponsors for the match.

Thanks Paul!

[SGDM]

Stage 5 LaRue target not falling with several near center hits. Got to have a plan for calling a target bad when so many of the late Saturday shooters hit the target several times and the RO said "hit it higher"

The Running back and forth to the same table to pick up one gun at a time had a "Silly" feel to it = even at a club match we would have set up a separate barrel left and right for separate guns. The separation and gun staging could have been completed as the targets were set, with no time loss.

Its a small thing, but presentation is 1/2 the job sometimes.

We made Cartoon sounds every time a shooter ran back to the same table to get another gun

Written stage descriptions for us hearing impaired /slow hearing. So that we can know the stage requirements (even if it is only available to the squad on deck.

IF! we cant walk or look at the stages the day before the match + Tell us before we louse a days work.

I call showing up early "Smart" =Being Prepared with Intel= Good Re-con is not gaming = its smart <Going in Dumb and blind >

If we are supposed to be unprepared - thin put all the ammo in a big bucket so that we don't know whats going in our gun

I go to work with the right tools & material.

next year let some-one help with stage plans and descriptions (even if it is the day before as the RO shoot) I bet three or more guys would step up that do quick stage plans on the computer. ( I will volunteer if I have to, I am not as good as most)

Jamie

Hate me if you have to ( Why do I feel like a sacrificial Lamb)?

If next year was going to have more of the same as this year= I would still pay more and take an extra day for this match =Thanks this was a good match for me.

Thanks Buddy! That is the kind of feed back that I am looking for and will make it better.

[B_Ayers]

Something that might be helpful, appoint a squad leader and give one or two booklets per squad. That would cut down on printing costs and every one could still get a stage description.

The stages challenged my shooting for sure. I was really surprised @ stage 5 finish. But this was my 1st major 3 gun match, but I have shot a few smaller matches in the past. But very please with my finish. Again, Linda excellent job and it very nice meeting you.

greg, I sent you a pm yesterday about a couple of things we saw with our squad while shooting stage 6 and on stage 1 and 2. But those are more tweaks.

The guys @ Larue, all the staff and a big thank you to Mr. Steve for letting us shoot on his place. The prizes were great. I will be back next year.

[Jadeslade]

I had not been to Texas in years and I was not prepared for how beautiful the landscape can be. It was an honor to be among all the great shooters at this match. It was a tough match, no doubt. I can not really even walk right now, so any match would be tough for me, but I was not going to turn down a chance to shoot this. The camaraderie and information exchange was at an extremely high level. I like the looseness of the match and gun handling. I have no problem telling someone to check their muzzle or tighten it up. Better than poorly located inadequate safety areas with too many people trying to crowd in with 3 guns. I like getting my guns ready at the car-do it at home every day-shouldn't be any different at a match. I never felt unsafe-the RO's were really good at clearing. I liked the long shots. I don't mind shooting left handed. I didn't like the ports on 5- let me pick the port, you pick target placement. A rake would have solved the shell problem on 5. I would have liked being able to go prone on 6-the constraint of shooting through barrels should be enough. This was a great match, I hope it continues.

Here's Bennie shooting stage 3-

and Kurt M shooting stage 7 in great style

[LChico]

Stage 7 results: check your yellow copies & email me if I need to make corrections

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2010 LaRue Tactical 3 Gun Statistician

Stage7Results.pdf

[Scout454]

Had a great time. Had a great feed and Greg got me drunk...can't ask for more! KurtM

I got you drunk.

Greg finished it.

[GeneralChang]

Jamie made some very good points...Thanks Jamie

Many thanks to all those that made the match possible. It is an incredible feat to execute such an endeavor.

I would like to add a few things beginnning with the match rules. The scoring component for Tac Heavy division was applied differently (on some stages) than what was written in the rules which was frustrating. Some RO's were scoring Non Alpha hits as penalties.

A couple of guys on our squad had trouble with an LT target on stage 5 and there clearly was a problem with calibration and the RO advised that the MD knew there was an issue but stated to keep on trucking. If the target doesn't work reliably for everyone then let's fix it.

Some RO's said keep your muzzle down while moving where others did not...what is the consensus here? Consistency is very important in any match along with consistent application of the rules.

The stages presented fantastic challenges however I would like to have been forced to negotiate the challenge versus being forced by a stage briefing. In other words, let the stage props, walls, barricades etc. force the shooter to shoot weak hand (or whatever) instead of the stage briefing. It adds to a bit of realism to work out the challenges presented by the stage.

Signup for the match and stats were nothing short of perfect.

RO's, how were they treated? Did any of them get a lunch break? Did they have all the tools they needed?

I did not care for the looseness of gun handling in the match.

Edited May 12, 2010 by GeneralChang

[Rem300um]

First off Great Match. Congrats to all that finished way up on top. Thanks LaRue and all of the sponsors and the RO's. It was my first 3-gun match and was a challange. I really enjoyed the moving and shooting, something I don't get to do very often(and it shows).

The only thing I didn't like was competing with some of the "Pro's" that get paid and are sponsered to shoot matches. They are way above and beyond most of our shooting skills and it really showed. Maybe class shooters by how many matches they have won or something like that?????(Others muttered it, but I am typing it) I know I will get flamed by saying that, so what the hell I'm a man and can take it. I know that gives people something to strive for and to push them and make them better shooters. I just dont have the money for ammo to shoot like those guys. A great match and I will be back next year, for sure.

Thanks again for everyones time who put this on.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Rem300um

[operatorTRP]

I too would like to thank all involved for the best weekend shooting I have had in a long time! It was the 3rd LT 3 gun I have been able to make, and they keep getting better! Great time shooting with old friends, and getting a person new to competing some exposure.

I also aggree that the par time was very reasonable, and the only reason I ever timed out was that I sucked at hitting the targets. All the stages were extremely challenging for me, and I feel like they exposed my many weaknesses, so now more practice!

Stage 7 was absolutely awesome to shoot, and thanks for keeping it open for those to shoot Just for fun!

I had no illusions of winning anything except a t-shirt and walked away, as always, with more than my entry fee in loot. Thanks!

I think the stages and time flow were laid out really well, and kept things moving.

The RO's were great and thanks to all of them, so don't take this the wrong way, but many were inconsistent. I have no problem at all being corrected, but it is frustrating when the rules change each stage. NOthing bad, just things like Muzzle up/ muzzle down; pre load/ load at the table; Sling/ no sling; ect.. Just a bit of constructive critisism. If it were run the exact same next year I would still have just as much fun!

Thanks again to all those who made it possible!

Still going through Brisket withdrawls!

Z

[1chota]

i thought it was a great match! i love trying to catch up with Benny Hill. I haven't done that yet, and may never, but this ole dog is gonna try.

the only problem i had with the match was my shooting skills. other than that, nothing. great job. thanks to all who put it together.

Benny: see ya in Missouri!

[benny hill]

I'll be 64 in a few months, catch me if you can.

[1chota]

I'll be 64 in a few months, catch me if you can.

no wonder i can't catch you, i am one year younger! see ya up at Missouri.

[kellyn]

First off Great Match. Congrats to all that finished way up on top. Thanks LaRue and all of the sponsors and the RO's. It was my first 3-gun match and was a challange. I really enjoyed the moving and shooting, something I don't get to do very often(and it shows).

The only thing I didn't like was competing with some of the "Pro's" that get paid and are sponsered to shoot matches. They are way above and beyond most of our shooting skills and it really showed. Maybe class shooters by how many matches they have won or something like that?????(Others muttered it, but I am typing it) I know I will get flamed by saying that, so what the hell I'm a man and can take it. I know that gives people something to strive for and to push them and make them better shooters. I just dont have the money for ammo to shoot like those guys. A great match and I will be back next year, for sure.

Thanks again for everyones time who put this on.

Great match, Greg. Thanks to you and your crew for all the hard work. That was certainly a match that tested one's whole skill set: target discrimination, support side shooting, technical slug shots, wind reading, odd angles, CQB, shooting out of moving vehicles, crawling, running.

My biggest criticism is that there was too much select slug and select slug combined with aerial targets which could easily lead to someone engaging an aerial with a slug. That and my procedural for actually shooting the targets tactically on Stage 4!

As for shooting against "Pros." This was a MAJOR 3 gun event, what did you expect? But all of those "Pros" have real jobs too. There are not many Rob Leatham/Jerry Miculek full time shooting professionals. So buy a Nordic Components .22 upper and get out and practice!

[AlamoShooter]

Shooting with pros and Semi pros is worth the match fee to me if I only got to shoot one of the stages.

This format is one of the main things that make a match Real.

Its not like we have to hit a Fast Ball from a big name pitcher. We do what we can and have a 'Real Score' to measure our selfs too.

I would be real disappointed to find out that one of the top guys did not put in his best effort.

We allways have the "Lewis Class" system = the 75% line 50% line and 25% line =A B C