tk2 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I've seen a couple of STI frames develope cracks after hard chroming and have read that Hydrogen Embritlement occurs to steel after receiving a hard chrome finish. The plater I talked to said they bake all parts after plating to relieve the hydrogen embrittlemt, but it still seemed like parts failure was a concern after plating. So my question is, does hard chrome finish weaken the gun parts and lead to premature failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I don't have scientific facts to back this answer up but....no. At least nothing you would notice. I have seen, owned, and used several hard chrome guns and I have never noticed a difference in failure rate due to hard chrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 well, Tim, it looks like I will be off to google or wikipedia here in a minute to look up "hydrogen embrittlement". My first knee jerk reaction is to be skeptical. Do you have any pics of where these cracks are? I only ask that because...well... I have seen some questionable milling practices with respect to slides and frames, totally ignoring some common engineering mechanics/metallurgy principles...or at least I think so... again, that's my first knee jerk reaction. I probably am wrong, so YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I would think that if Hydrogen Embrittlement was really as common as you say, then less and less people would be hard chroming their guns. But this is the first I've even heard of such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) The folks at SV told me that is why they don't offer HC as a finish. Edited August 16, 2009 by rangertrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 '..Hydrogen Embrittlement: Hydrogen embrittlement can occur when hardened tool steel (Rc 52 or harder) is plated with industrial hard chrome. Stresses caused by the formation of hydrogen in the deposit can render the component susceptible to fracture. Although overlooked by many platers, this problem is easily solved by baking the component at 350 F within 8 hours of plating...' http://www.meadvilleplating.com/chrome.html "...Provided that high strength steels are stress-relieved before plating and heat-treated again afterwards (usually for 3 to 12 hours at about 375*F), there will be few problems with hydrogen embrittlement..." http://www.dynachrome.com/hard-chrome.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Years ago I had a long discussion with Ron Mahovsky at Metalife on the subject of hydrogen embrittlement. His opinion - and this is a guy who's plated gun parts for decades - is that the only way hydrogen embrittlement can become a problem is (1) if there's an underlying flaw in the part itself, then the plating can exacerbate that and lead to cracking, (2) the plating process is repeated again and again. The customer says, "I want the gun plated," then they say, "I've got to have a beavertail," so the gun gets stripped and replated after that. Then of course then have to have a mag funnel installed.... And so on. That's why most platers will tell you, "Get the gun exactly the way you want it before hard chroming, because I'm only going to do this once." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 So I guess the short answer to your question would be, "No, if you're plating quality parts, and you're only doing the gun one time, it is HIGHLY unlikely the plating process will lead to cracked parts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 So I guess the short answer to your question would be, "No, if you're plating quality parts, and you're only doing the gun one time, it is HIGHLY unlikely the plating process will lead to cracked parts." I would agree with Duane... I've discussed this with Virgil Tripp and although he said it seemed to happen more years ago it's not really something to worry about with the hard chrome processes today. I've also discussed this with the SVI guys and decided to hard chrome 2 different SVI guns so we'll see if there ever becomes an issue. I highly doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinister Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hard chroming is generally prohibited in the aircraft/parachute hardware manufacturing industry precisely because of hydrogen embrittlement. You certainly wouldn't want a piece of life-support hardware failing during load or after extensive vibration. Put it on a hobby gun and generally all you risk is a cracked frame or slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I've had hard chromed carry guns in the past, and I didn't worry about it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Never seen a gun @ 52 rockwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Most of the cracks I have seen in firearms ...came from stress risers (sharp edges or corners in high stress areas) But hydrogen embrittlement is a real thing ...plating and welding can create real issues. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokecloud Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 a friend of mine sheered the lugs off of his barrel (1911), the barrel had been chromed and was deemed a failure to hydrogen embrittlement. Bang, bang bang, shchhlllink.........now how did that slide get on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 SV stated to me that "If you hard chrome the new gun-you have no warrant" after spending that kind of money- I'll take my time till the warrant is over. Then off to the chrome shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbadoc Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) I do not have experience in chroming, but I know about steelmaking. In making steel, hydrogen embrittlement usually occurs because they get water into the refining ladle and it gets so hot it dissassociates into hydrogen and oxygen. It does not take much (8-10 parts per million) to cause an issue. That said, I do not see how the hydrogen would form (low temps) and how it would be able to penetrate into the metal of the gun (at relatively low temps) and be able to cause embrittlement upon hard chroming. It sounds more like a cover for other flaws in the metal. (say something like acid leaching of non-dispersed alloying metals by the bath or underlying microcracks in the weapon) Edited September 3, 2009 by bubbadoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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