Badass Padlock Advice

[benos]

From my "I like my New Dillon Bike" thread:

When researching for a new really tough bike lock, I've read that the circular tumbler locks are not cool because many of them can be picked with a Bic pen.

But most of the threads I saw on that were fairly old. Any lock wizards out there that know if that's still the case?

I already bought a couple locks. One is a hardened chain lock - and the key (the bike shop person said) is a weird kind of key I've never seen before. (I know locks pretty good - I bought bigJoni a set of conventional lock picks many years ago for here birthday.) The "tumbler's are don't contact the edges of the key. Looking at the key from head on, it's flat and somewhat oval shaped. And the cylinder's pins contact the key on each side. Each side of the key has multiple, indentations of different depths for the pins to drop into. It looks like it would be pretty much impossible to pick. But the lock itself is shaped like a miniature U lock, with quite a bit of the lock body, where the key inserts, that extends past the "U". So it might be able to be fairly easily broken with a crowbar and a long steel tube, stuck over the part of the lock where the key inserts.

The chain looks real tough. But I might want to replace the lock with just some sort of badass padlock.

The other lock is a "Ultra Bike Club." The guy at the bike shop (they're very near ASU's campus) said in all the years they've been selling them, they've never had a student report that lock being defeated. And he also said that the ASU police called them and said whenever they have to remove a bike from campus with that lock, they have to torch it off. So that sounds like a pretty good lock. But it's not nearly as flexible as the 4' chain lock. Oh and it also uses the same type of key described in the previous paragraph.

And I'm pretty sure he also said the keys cannot be duplicated in the US. So keep the spares in a safe place.

be

Below is a pic of the small U lock I'd like to replace with a badass padlock. It's sad, they went to all the trouble to make the unique key, but the lock/cyliner/housing feels light and twinky - and it looks like a casting.

I know Medeco makes some tough locks that ain't going to be picked. And in searches I keep coming across Abus Locks. Which look real tough. But I think most of them have either Kwickset or Schlage (sp on both) key blanks, which are both pickable, and their Granit Locks have disc tumblers, which I'm not sure on.

be

[Blaster]

Disc locks are easy to pick. As to be easily pickable kwickset is 10 times easier than schledge because schledge has a lot tighter tolernaces. look at kriptinite locks with round keyway. Blaster

[jhgtyre]

Disc locks are easy to pick. As to be easily pickable kwickset is 10 times easier than schledge because schledge has a lot tighter tolernaces. look at kriptinite locks with round keyway. Blaster

Like this one?

[Flexmoney]

I know Medeco makes some tough locks that ain't going to be picked.

I watched a video of a 12 year old girl defeating a new Medeco. Though, I think, she had some training from a real super pro.

Probably don't need to be stealing bikes if you know Medeco locks.

(I'll see if I can find the video.)

[ima45dv8]

Medeco makes some good locks.

As for defeating cylinder locks (hollow circular key) with a Bic pen, I'd like to see that. Not saying it can't be done....I'd just like to see it.

I do know you can make a pass key for a cylinder lock using a screwdriver if you have some machining skills and access to an end-mill and a few hair pins...

[ashman627]

I'm a locksmith and I would say that American padlocks are VERY difficult to defeat.They use serrated pins that make it very hard to line up the pins on the shear line other than with a key.I really recomend them even though they don't look cool.Just big bad tough to beat locks

Edited August 14, 2009 by ashman627

[Modoc]

I'm a locksmith and I would say that American padlocks are VERY difficult to defeat.They use serrated pins that make it very hard to line up the pins on the shear line other than with a key.I really recomend them even though they don't look cool.Just big bad tough to beat locks

That's an interesting note, I just looked at what our locks are for the District and they are all American Padlocks

[Flexmoney]

As for defeating cylinder locks (hollow circular key) with a Bic pen, I'd like to see that. .

All kinds of stuff on youtube.

Kryptonite Lock

Skip to about 1:10 time hack:

another:

12y old girl bumps a Medeco;

Ultimate Bike Club:

American bypass tool:

[Shawn Knight]

http://www.videx.com/CyberLock/CyberLock.Cylinders.html

[ima45dv8]

As for defeating cylinder locks (hollow circular key) with a Bic pen, I'd like to see that. .

All kinds of stuff on youtube.

Kryptonite Lock

Skip to about 1:10 time hack:

another:

12y old girl bumps a Medeco;

Ultimate Bike Club:

American bypass tool:

It never occurred to me to check YouTube. "Thanks, and thanks for not telling me to Do A Search!"

I haven't played with cylinder locks in a long time and didn't know there's a size that could be attacked with barrel of a pen.

[dajarrel]

Without drifting the thread too much... Consider what kind of chain you are going to use with that bada$$ lock. I recently had to cut a chain/lock combo off a gate. We had a three foot bolt cutter. The chain was stainless and the bolt cutter wouldn't cut it. We had to cut the lock instead.

It appears that the stainless, although tougher, is not as hard or brittle as most standard or hardened chains. If you look at a standard chain when it is cut with bolt cutters, the last little bit is actually broken rather than cut. The stainless doesn't break, it just get squeezed down to a thinner cross section. You can still cut it with a hacksaw (in a vise or with something holding it) but it's tough.

It's sad to say, but the bolt cutter is the ultimate key.

fwiw

dj

[benos]

Disc locks are easy to pick. As to be easily pickable kwickset is 10 times easier than schledge because schledge has a lot tighter tolernaces. look at kriptinite locks with round keyway. Blaster

I'm with you on that - thank you.

I'm a locksmith and I would say that American padlocks are VERY difficult to defeat.They use serrated pins that make it very hard to line up the pins on the shear line other than with a key.I really recomend them even though they don't look cool.Just big bad tough to beat locks

Yes. My previous badass lock was an American. But finally the weather got to the tumbler mechanism, and a friend had to cut it off with a grinder.

I currently have a badass Master (pic below), that looks and feels a lot like the American. But the key on the Master looks easier to pick than the circular key on the American.

I've heard bike thieves use battery powered grinders. But I'd guess that there would not be many of those operating an areas where I'd leave my bike.

Without drifting the thread too much... Consider what kind of chain you are going to use with that bada$$ lock. I recently had to cut a chain/lock combo off a gate. We had a three foot bolt cutter. The chain was stainless and the bolt cutter wouldn't cut it. We had to cut the lock instead.

It appears that the stainless, although tougher, is not as hard or brittle as most standard or hardened chains. If you look at a standard chain when it is cut with bolt cutters, the last little bit is actually broken rather than cut. The stainless doesn't break, it just get squeezed down to a thinner cross section. You can still cut it with a hacksaw (in a vise or with something holding it) but it's tough.

It's sad to say, but the bolt cutter is the ultimate key.

The chain sounds pretty badass when you rattle it. I just tried it with 2' bolt cutters, and they and there wasn't even a scratch on the surface of the link.

Thanks everyone.

be

[benos]

ashman627,

ON the American Lock, were you talking "regular flat key" or the round, or "tubular key" lock (with the serrated pins)?

be

This looks like a pretty badass lock. Especially since the most expensive lock on the site's "high security (American) lock" page is $25, and mr. badass is $52.

Just ordered one. It looks like that lock will be tough to defeat.

be

[Jadeslade]

When I lived in Philadelphia, dudes got three Peugeots in a row, the last one they torched the street light I was chained to-took that too. In 4 minutes.Got a Schwinn and started carrying it in to my apartment-even for lunch. Drag. With this economy, I expect the torch van gang to be back at it again. Good luck.

[ashman627]

ashman627,

ON the American Lock, were you talking "regular flat key" or the round, or "tubular key" lock (with the serrated pins)?

be

This looks like a pretty badass lock. Especially since the most expensive lock on the site's "high security (American) lock" page is $25, and mr. badass is $52.

Just ordered one. It looks like that lock will be tough to defeat.

be

I haven't used the Tubular key lock.The regular flat key lock uses serrated pins and is very hard to pick.We have a couple around the shop that we all have been trying to pick for days.Master locks never last more than a few minutes at most.American makes a good product.

[Doodle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dxUiiqTAMI

[John Dunn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dxUiiqTAMI

That's funny!

[Rob Boudrie]

You need to consider the two basic classes of attacks: Force (drilling, cutting, grinding, torching, etc.) and defeat of the locking mechanism through means such as picking, shimming, rapping or impressioning. Some locks offer excellent resistance in one arena, but little in another. Others offer generally good resistance to attacks such as cutting or grinding, but have a weakness to a particular type of physical attach (for example, some locks are tough to cut but can be easily opened with a rotary pick [portable electric drill]). Still others offer little resistance to a brute force attach, but are very resistance to surrepetitious openings (for example, some S&G combination padlocks place a greater emphasis on resisting surrepetitious opening than on resisting an attach from a grinder).

I've very skeptical of the Medeco bump unless the base key used just happened to have all the pin rotations matching that of the actual key, or the sidebar had been removed from the lock. Abloy also offers decent pick resistance.

[Shawn Knight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dxUiiqTAMI

[benos]

You need to consider the two basic classes of attacks: Force (drilling, cutting, grinding, torching, etc.) and defeat of the locking mechanism through means such as picking, shimming, rapping or impressioning. Some locks offer excellent resistance in one arena, but little in another. Others offer generally good resistance to attacks such as cutting or grinding, but have a weakness to a particular type of physical attach (for example, some locks are tough to cut but can be easily opened with a rotary pick [portable electric drill]). Still others offer little resistance to a brute force attach, but are very resistance to surrepetitious openings (for example, some S&G combination padlocks place a greater emphasis on resisting surrepetitious opening than on resisting an attach from a grinder).

Right - I'm with you on that. That was what was said about the lock that came with the tough chain. Tough chain, tough lock pick-wise, but one good smack with a hammer and the cylinder would probably bust apart.

ashman627,

ON the American Lock, were you talking "regular flat key" or the round, or "tubular key" lock (with the serrated pins)?

be

This looks like a pretty badass lock. Especially since the most expensive lock on the site's "high security (American) lock" page is $25, and mr. badass is $52.

Just ordered one. It looks like that lock will be tough to defeat.

be

I haven't used the Tubular key lock.The regular flat key lock uses serrated pins and is very hard to pick.We have a couple around the shop that we all have been trying to pick for days.Master locks never last more than a few minutes at most.American makes a good product.

Right - I can open most Master locks pretty quickly. This American looks pretty mean, and it has the serrated pins. So with that and the hardened chain, I think it will be about as secure as it can be for the amount of weight I'm willing to carrry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dxUiiqTAMI

I didn't see

poop

coming.

[benos]

Just got it:

This looks like a pretty badass lock.

It looks like that lock will be tough to defeat.

It's ridiculous. It weighs 2.2 lbs. The whole chain's now definitely the weak link.

be

[M'Lady]

I think this one may be considered the best:

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/PL-833.php

I don't think anyone will be able to defeat this.

[Flexmoney]

I think this one may be considered the best:

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/PL-833.php

I don't think anyone will be able to defeat this.

At the price, I'd be afraid somebody would steal the LOCK!