CDPMatt Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 i guess what it boils down to is does the SO "know" the shooter and the reason for the glove...i know the shooter and know that the glove was indeed worn because the gun grooves his hand when he shoots it. i would like to hear robert's opinion on this because i know it is not possible for any given SO to "know" every shooter that steps to the line...especially in a sanctioned match.regardless, i know that the glove was not worn for any sort of competitive advantage...mainly because every time we travel for a sanctioned match, my band-aid inventory decreases dramatically... yes what is this raking of the leaves that you speak of???? Rules should be the same for everyone though.... like you said we can't know everyone even though Wayne tries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivethatglock Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 yes what is this raking of the leaves that you speak of???? I know. I swear my wife promised to do all the yard work in a Bikini while I sat in a lawn chair drinking beer before we got married. For some reason, she does not remember that promise. let me know if you get that to work...i'll bring my own lawn chair and cooler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 ..i know the shooter and know that the glove was indeed worn because the gun grooves his hand when he shoots it. ............regardless, i know that the glove was not worn for any sort of competitive advantage... If the gun "grooves" his hand because of the way he holds it and then wears gloves so he can grip it that way then it is a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osport Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 What is the competition gear! When he shoots the gun he gets slide bite! Therefore he wears a glove when he shoots the gun. The glove would be safety gear. Maybe the question is would he put the glove on in a defensive situation if given the chance? Similar to the movies where the bad guy pulls on a tight glove while giving the speech right before he gets his gun. I doubt anyone wears earmuffs or safety glasses all day incase they encounter a defensive situation. I put the gloves on level with ear protection and eye protection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivethatglock Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 i guess what it boils down to is does the SO "know" the shooter and the reason for the glove...i know the shooter and know that the glove was indeed worn because the gun grooves his hand when he shoots it. i would like to hear robert's opinion on this because i know it is not possible for any given SO to "know" every shooter that steps to the line...especially in a sanctioned match.regardless, i know that the glove was not worn for any sort of competitive advantage...mainly because every time we travel for a sanctioned match, my band-aid inventory decreases dramatically... yes what is this raking of the leaves that you speak of???? Rules should be the same for everyone though.... like you said we can't know everyone even though Wayne tries i'm confused...i thought wayne DID know everybody!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 where is the popcorn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I would like to widen this discussion a bit. A lefthanded revolver shooter wearing a glove to prevent being burned by the forcing cone. What's the call? I shoot lefthanded but I use heavy bandaging tape for the purpose. Looks like I have a damaged hand. Again, what's the call? Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcArthur Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Ok. Here is my side of the story. I was the shooter in question and this still make me mad. I went ahead and did what the SO asked me to do. It was his bay therefore his call. It was the last stage of the day so I was not worried at cutting my hand this point. The MD was never called and no PE was givin. FTDR was never even brought up. I shoot two more big matches after this one and still have the scares to prove it. You all say that since I don't walk around with one glove on, I should not get to use it. Well How may people walk around with their vests on and muffs. I have since found another gun to use other than a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I am curious as to what gun you are shooting that gives you this much bodily harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcArthur Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Glock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHolsted Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 I'm new to this game, but I think I agree with Duane on this one. I would also add that if the guy is being bitten by his gun, he would be at a competitive DISADVANTAGE, while I cannot see how wearing the glove gives him a competitive advantage.As in any sport, sometimes the call that is not made is the best call. Well after doing some thinking on it some more last night I still come back to the glove as competition only equipment and not safety equipment like glasses and ear plugs/muffs. If you are having problems like that then I would think some wide medical tape over and through web of the hand would help solve the problem. I glove that is used in another support to improve grip and control could also be used to do the same in this sport along with providing protection from slide bite. What did the MD say? Pass the decision to him. It never needed to go to the MD due to the competitor removing the glove an shooing the CoF. I've SO'd and been an MD for plenty of competitors using gloves.... from Police Officers training for duty to people wearing a similar "golf" glove with the fingers cut to prevent slide bite at NATIONALS to a guy in San Antonio who was so ridden with skin cancer that nearly every piece of his skin needed to be covered from the sun. All of these were never questioned as they are not competition gear and there is no rule against them, they are included under "DUTY" or "Safety Gear". Also, I was curious Pat, did you ever ask the MD? I have no problems with LEO who are using duty gear to shoot with or someone with a medical condition.... But wearing a glove to prevent slide bite can also be used to improve support and grip and should not be allowed under competition only Gear. I never asked the MD as there was no need at the time. If the competitor would have asked for a ruling from the MD he would have been called and no hard feelings. How would the shooter have known that said gun had bitten him and also had the knowledge to prevent it if it had never happened before??? Just so everyone knows this competitor was shooting a borrowed gun as he is very new to IDPA and had no gear yet. It's done now but I wonder how we'll all handle it in the future if indeed it comes up again especially at Nationals. If they had no clue the gun would do that then why have a special glove to prevent it? I will give Robert Ray a call and see what he thinks so maybe in the future we all will know. i guess what it boils down to is does the SO "know" the shooter and the reason for the glove...i know the shooter and know that the glove was indeed worn because the gun grooves his hand when he shoots it. i would like to hear robert's opinion on this because i know it is not possible for any given SO to "know" every shooter that steps to the line...especially in a sanctioned match.regardless, i know that the glove was not worn for any sort of competitive advantage...mainly because every time we travel for a sanctioned match, my band-aid inventory decreases dramatically... What does knowing the competitor or not have any thing to do with the call. Maybe thinking it was personal? I can assure you there was nothing personal there at all. I think many people would line up to let that be know if it were the case. I would like to widen this discussion a bit.A lefthanded revolver shooter wearing a glove to prevent being burned by the forcing cone. What's the call? I shoot lefthanded but I use heavy bandaging tape for the purpose. Looks like I have a damaged hand. Again, what's the call? Glen There is a revolver shooter in this area that use bandage tape on his fingers for the same thing. I have no problem with this as long as it just the tape and not glove. In the end I think it is to easy to come up with a reason like slide bite or being burned to get extra benefits out of a piece pf equipment. I know this person was not trying to gain a competitive edge but what about the next??? Where do we draw the line? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajackb Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Patrick +1 As a MD for my local club I would have had him remove the glove. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDPMatt Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Agree to disagree..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 If it was cold out and the guy was wearing two gloves, fine by me. But as stated, it sounds like competition only equipment to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I have a hard time seeing the competition only equipment angle when it is readily demonstrated that when given the option there are virtually no top tier shooters who choose to grip the gun with gloves. Also, when making the argument of one glove vs. two...you must pick a road. If one glove improves grip for competitive advantage then two gloves must double that advantage regardless of the weather. Utilizing medical tape to cover the area???? OK but at what point does the tape get to long and begin to give a grip advantage. Taping in the web of the hand usually is very ineffective unless the tap is run almost completely around the hand. I have to fall on the side that although as an individual one SO or another may not like it, as explained this is not a case of a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haji Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I have big hands, and even with a G17, I still get slide bite. With my EDC concealed carry 19, I grin and bear it, but pretty much have to practice with gloves or I bleed. To me that's protective equipment like ears and eyes. I don't see any improvement in my shooting with 'em, so I don't see the advantage. If the rule is still no gloves, then I won't wear gloves. I run my 17 faster than I can by MnP, so even though I'm taking the life of the back of my hand into...uh...my hand, I'm still gonna risk it. It doesn't happen all that much, but since it does, I'd be in favor of running gloves if I could. I don't recall seeing a rule concerning them in the rule book I have. Perhaps that needs to be addressed by the home office. the vest analogy...I understand where you're coming from. However, I see quite a few people in this area concealed carrying like that. The vest screams "LOOKIT HOW POORLY I'M HIDING THE FACT THAT I HAVE A GUN!" almost as much as the fanny-pack-with-pager-attached screamed "I'M AN OFF DUTY COP!" did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 how many people walk around with a glove on to prevent slide bite, on the off chance they are involved in a "self-defense" shooting? the same could be said about eye and ear protection. In order to be considered "competitive equipment", the piece should give a competitive advantage of some sort. I'm just not seeing a golf glove doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) I would like to widen this discussion a bit.A lefthanded revolver shooter wearing a glove to prevent being burned by the forcing cone. What's the call? I shoot lefthanded but I use heavy bandaging tape for the purpose. Looks like I have a damaged hand. Again, what's the call? Glen same as Glen on this on..when i shoot ESR,there is a HUGE risk of dropping the gun during the reload due to "forcing cone blisters" ,i tryed tape but that didnt work..it just melted into the skin, ..dont shoot ESR that much at all,but do wear a fingerless glove when i do... Edited August 10, 2009 by GmanCdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbeck Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I would like to widen this discussion a bit.A lefthanded revolver shooter wearing a glove to prevent being burned by the forcing cone. What's the call? I shoot lefthanded but I use heavy bandaging tape for the purpose. Looks like I have a damaged hand. Again, what's the call? Glen same as Glen on this on..when i shoot ESR,there is a HUGE risk of dropping the gun during the reload due to "forcing cone blisters" ,i tryed tape but that didnt work..it just melted into the skin, ..dont shoot ESR that much at all,but do wear a fingerless glove when i do... Yeah, but everybody knows you're a little Yankee Wuss. r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 ...how many people walk around with a glove on to prevent slide bite, on the off chance they are involved in a "self-defense" shooting? No, but how many people shoot 180 rounds in a "self-defense" shooting? The muff and glasses point has already been made... I have permanent slide scars on my strong hand from a very high grip on my Glock. I've tried adhesive bandages, West Virginia chrome (duct tape), liquid bandage, and gloves. All of them suck and none of them offer a "competitive advantage". Can I change my grip to eliminate this problem? Sure. Do I want to? No. I think my high grip offers me a competitive advantage, so I'm sure some overly helpful Marksman SO will want to call me out on it at a big match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 This popcorn is good !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHolsted Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Talked to Robert Ray today to see what he thought and he informed that there was a ruling on this about a year or so ago. The ruling was that it was ok. So let it be that on this day I was wrong! Thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 How can rules be enforced that HQ says are ok but are not in the RULE BOOK ??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) How can rules be enforced that HQ says are ok but are not in the RULE BOOK ??!!! A big +1 to that, and what possible excuse could they have for not providing a method for distributing rulings? They have a website and a printed publication for crying out loud. I can hear the defenders coming by any second now, but this really is just ridiculous. Edited August 11, 2009 by Greg Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 How can rules be enforced that HQ says are ok but are not in the RULE BOOK ??!!! A big +1 to that, and what possible excuse could they have for not providing a method for distributing rulings? They have a website and a printed publication for crying out loud. I can hear the defenders coming by any second now, but this really is just ridiculous. There is no EXCUSE !!! Update the damn rule book and be done ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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