NOSAJ19 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Tanfoglio Stock 2 CZ 75 SP01 Shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Tanfoglio Stock 2CZ 75 SP01 Shadow Fine firearm would fit nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Here should be pictures of the holster that Kevin mentioned and a Bianchi S&W N Frame holster for a 6.5 inch barrel.If a holster is safe to use in metallic why should another be required for production ? The K frame Smith I shoot in metallic is the same gun that I shoot in distinguished revolver PPC and the revolver that I shoot in AP production.One gun three NRA classes,now does it not make sence to keep the rules alike also? I think distinguished revolver for PPC has a 2.5 lb single action trigger,6in barrel and all factory safeties must be intact. Tom Edited September 4, 2009 by 9146gt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Tom, Thanks for posting the pictures. The reason for a different holster in Production was to make it bare bones so that a shooter could pick up a holster at any gun shop and compete. I don't know what you paid for that originally but my competition rigs run from $150 to $250. The idea is the cheaper the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 i started shooting AP about 2 years ago, before prod was introduced, with my IPSC production cz85 combat in a cr speed. naturaly i shot it SA cocked and locked as allowed in met sight. i was looking forward to production class as i might have a better chance than being against 1911's. well was i wrong. to start i need to buy a new holster. then there is the 3.5lb any mode trigger. in ipsc it's 5lb first DA shot, in uspsa there is no min pull. since this is a ipsc production gun i am not allowed to modify the trigger,sear etc, and have to use only cz factory parts. my SA trigger is under 3lb. guess i wont be shooting AP production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Here's an idea. Buy an elcheapo holster, because that's all you'll need, and buy the springs to get the extra 1/2lb in the trigger pull. Problem solved with at the most $25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Here's an idea. Buy an elcheapo holster, because that's all you'll need, and buy the springs to get the extra 1/2lb in the trigger pull. Problem solved with at the most $25. No so easy with a revolver.Non of my PPC distinguished revolvers(2.5lbs single action pull required) will make 3.5 lbs single action with all stock springs. PPC distinguished is a stock revolver with action work. Tom Edited September 8, 2009 by 9146gt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Not so fast, Tom. Buy a new hammer, remove the single action notch and presto! Production legal. If there's a will there's a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'll grant you there is a way, but I have a hard time seeing the why. If you have to buy extra parts to change your stock gun to make it Production, something seems a bit off. How many revolvers or DA/SA guns come with SA triggers under over 3.5? Most guns I've worked with they've been either right at or just a hair over 3.5. Certainly not enough for me to be comfortable taking it to a National Championhip. Either you're stuck with striker fired guns or DAO guns with consistent pulls. IPSC has a trigger pull rule that requires a 5lb pull for the first shot. This makes it very friendly to DA/SA guns but sucks for striker fired guns. If you have to have a trigger pull rule, please use two standards, 5 lbs for DA guns first shot. 3.5 lbs for Striker/DAO guns for every shot. If you have a rule for "Production" guns that excludes most box stock guns, you need to reevaluate that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Not so fast, Tom. Buy a new hammer, remove the single action notch and presto! Production legal. If there's a will there's a way. Some might not have the skills to do so and would be forced to pay a gunsmith to do it or buy a new gun. However, the real problem with this thinking is that for a lot of folks who are trying Bianchi Cup (not really "action pistol," since most folks only shoot the one match) for the first time, they don't have "the will" to go out and spend extra money and go to the effort of modifying their existing competition guns for one really expensive match a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 .... as others have mentioned, when you have to "modify" a stock, noncustom shop factory gun in order to make it NRA AP Production legal, then something is clearly wrong with some part of the definition. The Production holster, per NRA AP, has language to the effect of "suitable for everyday use". Suitable for what for the use of whom? Everyday use for a soldier may require a strap, for a cop, maybe triple retention, for a professional shooter maybe a Ghost or similar. All three aforementioned users use "production guns". If they meant concealed carry, then say so. The Production concept is a good one, but the definition of the firearm and other equipment needs some fine tuning for sure. MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) .... as others have mentioned, when you have to "modify" a stock, noncustom shop factory gun in order to make it NRA AP Production legal, then something is clearly wrong with some part of the definition.The Production holster, per NRA AP, has language to the effect of "suitable for everyday use". Suitable for what for the use of whom? Everyday use for a soldier may require a strap, for a cop, maybe triple retention, for a professional shooter maybe a Ghost or similar. All three aforementioned users use "production guns". If they meant concealed carry, then say so. The Production concept is a good one, but the definition of the firearm and other equipment needs some fine tuning for sure. MJ mj, i totally agree, i understand the purpose of introducing production was to attract new shooters from other sports, the biggest groups being uspsa and idpa in the usa, and ipsc for the rest of the world. since ipsc is the only one with a trigger weight limit for DA first shot only and no trigger jobs allowed, and both uspsa and idpa have no trigger weight limit and trigger jobs are allowed, you have just cut out half your intended audience. there are many quality factory DA/SA that would fail 3.5lb SA, revlovers and semi alike, cz shadow being one of them as for the no race holster, thats easy, no holster that retains the gun by the trigger guard and accept any that retain by surrounding the frame/slide. regardless of depth of the front cut. Edited September 9, 2009 by wanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If the intent is new shooters then my take on holsters is, if a holster is safe for a open or metallic gun it sure is safe for a production gun . Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 To bring this back up. We here in NZ have decided that we will not be following the NRA guidlines for Bianchi Cup for NRA AP Production, we have a large active section of IPSC Production shooters and we would like to see them shoot AP a little more. So we have suggested that we allow them to use anything that complies with IPSC Prod rules to shoot at matches in New Zealand. This way they don't have to spend money on their firearms to shoot the match. This will only apply here. If we compete overseas then we will have to comply with there rules. This is not to detract from what Tom and others are trying to achieve at the Bianchi Cup. this is our way to grow things here and see how it goes. Hopefully more will take up AP Production and then we will have to address this issue again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 To bring this back up.We here in NZ have decided that we will not be following the NRA guidlines for Bianchi Cup for NRA AP Production, we have a large active section of IPSC Production shooters and we would like to see them shoot AP a little more. So we have suggested that we allow them to use anything that complies with IPSC Prod rules to shoot at matches in New Zealand. This way they don't have to spend money on their firearms to shoot the match. This will only apply here. If we compete overseas then we will have to comply with there rules. This is not to detract from what Tom and others are trying to achieve at the Bianchi Cup. this is our way to grow things here and see how it goes. Hopefully more will take up AP Production and then we will have to address this issue again. I have to agree. I only shoot in Production Division in IPSC, and would love to keep my gear identical to shoot AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with Kevin, Sig X-5 DA/SA is a perfect candidate! Tom... I just picked up an X5 All Around , the sa trigger breaks at 2.9 lbs , new unfired. I would guess that would settle in at 2.75 lbs after a few thousand rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrjet Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I am looking at a X5 also---SA is too light at 2.9 right--should be 3.5 any mode or am I wrong. Is it easy to adjust the SA pull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Is it easy to adjust the SA pull? yeap it's real easy, send it to a gunsmith and get them to do a trigger job, but they might look at you funny when you tell them you want it heaver. puts another good gun out of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Is it easy to adjust the SA pull? yeap it's real easy, send it to a gunsmith and get them to do a trigger job, but they might look at you funny when you tell them you want it heaver. puts another good gun out of production. NRA AP is gone from this area, I bought the X5 AA for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 My X5 All Around has a SA pull at 3.5-3.75 lbs. All I did was change the hammer spring. It will shoot tight groups all day long if I do my part and really likes heavier bullets over the 115s. I am considering shooting next year's Cup with it and my 147 gr handloads. That is if I can shoot a few local matches to get the feel for it. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSAJ19 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) Tanfoglio Stock II Limited 38super. 4.0-4.25lbs average S/A with stock hammer spring. Accurate all day long. Cheers, Ando. Edited October 11, 2009 by NOSAJ19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmantwo Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Craig, the problem you'll have with the 147's is the lead on the mover. Unless you shoot major pf, your hold will be off the paper on the mover, and that's tough. I found this out this year, I bought an XDm in .40 for Bianchi production and IPSC production. I was shooting 155's, but even with 135's(lightest .40 you can get), my hold would be off the paper. In my opionion, the XD package is ideal for IPSC or Bianchi production, it gives you everything you need to shoot either, all for one price. I did put aftermarket springs and a sear in mine to get a better trigger, $60 total to get a shorter, 3.7lb trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrjet Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 My X5 All Around has a SA pull at 3.5-3.75 lbs. All I did was change the hammer spring.It will shoot tight groups all day long if I do my part and really likes heavier bullets over the 115s. I am considering shooting next year's Cup with it and my 147 gr handloads. That is if I can shoot a few local matches to get the feel for it. Craig spd522: That is the answer I was looking for on the X5. Use to 1911, so the hammer spring makes sense. Bruce at Grayguns likes the 124's for accuracy but for the mover it would be nice with the 115 xtp or sierras. I'll bet the 115 will work great. Shot my first cup last year and what a good time-- you have to try it--there is something special about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Long time since I shot production. My first "Cup" was in 1988 with a Stock CZ75. A rule of thumb for mover is to run a muzzle velocity of around 1100 to 1130. This will easily make power for a 115 but the benefit is in the lead on target. At 10 you aim at the edge of the X, 15 edge of the 10, 20 edge of the 8 and 25 edge of the target. Remember though you must use the same ammo for the whole tournament. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Grants lead calcs are as close as you can shoot for real. My Metallic loads are 125gr at 1000 fps actual calculated lead is dead on the edge of the target (9"). I suspect that unless you are really outside the norm (1000-1150fps) then you may have to worry more about the exact calculation. I used a 45 at the Nostalgia Match in 2009 and we used ammo going about 800fps and we figured that you just hang the front sight just off the target and go for it. Not flash but we did not miss the target due to incorrect lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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