Need Some Education On Caspian

[Bill Schwab]

I just purchased a Caspian 38 Supercomp open gun (it's being shipped today from Texas so I still don't have it) that comes with 4 Caspian hi-cap pre-ban mags already fitted with EGW extended basepads.

Judging from Caspian's website, stock mags hold 19 rounds, and I read somewhere that EGW's pads bring capacity up to 20 rnds, is that correct? I see nothing on EGW's website to confirm this. And Steve Anderson mentioned a 21 and a 20 rnd mag....

Steve also mentioned a 27 rnd mag, must be a 170mm. My question is how rare are these, and if they're incredibly rare, is it possible to cut and weld two 140mm pre-bans together to create a 170? Please kindly let me know if this is in violation of a law, but I wouldn't think so since they are pre-ban mags.

About the only informative thread concerning this topic is this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4139&hl=

Someone please enlighten me. Steve?

[reneet]

All factory Caspian mags hold 19 rounds with the Caspian base pad. From my personal experience, they're the only reliable mags available and are not real easy to come by.

It is legal to have 2 hi cap mags welded together to make a stick mag. The guy that I've always had do this is Fred Craig but he's no longer offering his services. Sent 2 mags to him a couple of months ago for this purpose and he returned them to me unmodified.

[Steve Anderson]

I have one caspian big stick made that way that I bought from Fred Craig directly, already made.

I THINK he is selling mag bodies now, saw an ad in FS to that effect.

If Travis T is lurking about, he may be able to fill us in a little.

I have about 12 Caspian prebans, and take real good care of them...

The egw base pads will get +2 if you modify the follower, I just run em at 19 and use the base pad to clear the magwell. It's rare to go from the big stick and then need more than 19 rounds.

SA

[Bucky]

BEFORE YOU CUT TWO HIGH CAP MAGAZINES... WAIT!!! What you need to do is buy the Caspian 10 round magazine (or just the tube if you can get it) and use just once high cap mag. Weld the 10 round and high cap together. Obviously, the 10 round is the top part. It is perfectly legal as you are taking one "high cap" mag and making it a higher cap mag. If you do it just right, you can get 28 rounds using super comp brass and 27 with standard super.

Also, if you can get the 170mm Craig magazine and you do the "Bucky Tune Job", you can get 29 using super comp brass. First, you need to get a USPSA mag gauge. Evolution Gun Works (EGW) sells them. First off, over the counter the mag doesn't fit the gauge. You'll also need a Dawson base pad for an STI/SV and a Wolff +10% spring.

First, fit the base pad to the mag. This generally requires hoggin out the front inside of the base pad as the Craig Caspian magazine is angled and the STI is more straight. You'll also need to trim some off the magazine feet. You may have to thin the feet a bit as well. It takes some work.

Next, you need to fit the magazine to the gauge. There are two areas you need to focus on. First, the back of the lips, looking at the back of the magazine are very squared off. You can gain quite a bit of gauge clearance by rounding this part, and it shouldn't even effect how the lips hold the rounds in place. Also, you need to start filing or grinding the base pad on an angle at the bottom (see how the mag slides into the gauge). Note: Dawson used to make a special SV 170 mm base pad that was much thinner on the bottom. They no longer have any in stock. If you can find one of these you are in great luck 'cause you don't need to file or grind this version.

Now once you are complete, you can reassemble and you should have a 28 round magazine. The final trick is to cut down the follower. You should only need to trim it to half it's size, which is still meatier than an SV competition follower. That should give you 29 rounds + 1 in a Caspian.

Oh, wait - let's not forget the tune job. Check the lenght of the lips. Some of the earlier ones were too long. This part is simple. Take your factory Caspian mag and hold it next to the Craig. If needed, trim the Craig mag back until it matches the factory. Also, make the opening match the factory mag as well. Also, get a dremel and buffing wheel and polish the heck out of the lips where it touches the rounds. You should be able to get them smooth as glass. This is something I would do to all my Craig mags (I shot a .40 Caspian exclusively with these magazines) at the beginning of each season.

A couple of tips. Use a LEE Undersized die (also available through EGW) to reload your ammo. This helps getting the 29th round in. Get a magazine loader. The last two rounds are tight. Don't load the last few round until you are on deck - good advice for any magazine you are maxing out on capacity. And finally, never use this magazine with regular .38 super brass. It won't work and may damage the mag. I've seen one guy wear a rim mark through the wall of the magazine.

That's it! First time I did this mod, it took about three hours -- though it was also experimentation. I was able to modify 5 magazines, all of which worked 100%.

Good luck!!

[Flexmoney]

Bucky,

I had the same idea, to marry a new (cheaper) ten round mag to an existing hicap. Have you done this? Somebody told me that it wouldn't work, I never knew why.

[Bucky]

Flexmoney,

Yes, I had three of them made like this. I started with a factory blue magazine, not a chrome one. Don't know if that made a difference. I just did it 'cause I had them and it made more sense to cut them up. They all worked flawlessly, though the first one only held 26 as the length was a bit short.

Bucky.

[SRT Driver]

Bucky,

SV basepads work on Caspian mags?

Aren't the SV basepads were wider at the bottom than the Caspians?

[Steve Anderson]

Bucky,

Who made them?

SA

[Bucky]

SRT Driver: The Dawson SV base pads can be retrofitted to the CRAIG style Caspian mags. The SV mags are a tad bit wider, but there are a lot of meat on the feet of the Craig mags and you can actually get a very tight fit.

Steve: A local shooter who used to be in the business of making targets did the welding. I had pre cut and prepped everything. He's been out of the business and out of sight for some time now.

[eric nielsen]

My mags were all made before 1995, when the original gun was built.

Far as I know the only 170mm mags that work are welded up. I've been offered up to $200 for mine. No way Jose.

Trivial fact - my big stick is welded from two mags that say "38-SUP 9MM SPRINGFIELD ARMORY". As opposed to Caspian. Since Rob Leatham and Doug Koenig (Team Springfield 1992) shot the Caspian frame for all of one year, I'm thinking I might have two of their mags.

[SRT Driver]

Bucky,

Cool!! You got me hoping.

Caspian28r,

Interesting!!! I've got 4-19rnd Springfield's. Didn't these work in the P9 or D9 or something?

[eric nielsen]

No. In 1991 they shot the P9, short 9x21 cartridge. Different gun. Matt McLearn and several other GMs did too. Then they switched to Caspian for 1992.

Maybe the Springfield custom shop ordered a bunch from the manufacturer, stamped with their name on it. I still like to pretend it was Robbie put all these scratches on mine.

The prettiest IPSC gun ever was Robbie's P9 with Bomar sights from 1990. Some of the most reliable hicap open guns ever were McLearn Custom Caspians. JMHO.

[rishii]

bill

egw made 2 different base pads, the first only added length to the mag, the second in addition lengthening the mag added 1 round or if you modified the mag tube 2 rounds.

caspian sold both blued mags and hard cromed ones, I've had good luck with the cromed ones, the blued mag required a bunch of work to get them to work.

btw the 10 rounder caspian sells, SUCKS big time.

[IPSCDRL]

Gee boys, there is no need to ruin a perfectly good magazine. (even if it IS a federally neutered one) The big stick I got when I bought my Caspian Super was simply made from a single 19 round magazine cut in half and a piece of bent sheet metal. Granted it might be easier for a hacker to cut and weld an existing tube, but mine performs flawlessly. I’ve been told that local shooter Bud Ehrman made mine back in the day.

Mine holds 26 rounds of .38 Super with wiggle room to spare and is not snug in the 170mm gauge. Reliability is the most important thing to me. One or two more rounds is not worth messing with it. (For me at least. YMMV)

[TravisT]

Caspian is already researching a second gen magazine in the event the AWB sunsets. Two 19 rounders made to the max length of 171.25mm, will hold 28 rounds of rimless. My personal sticks measure 169mm & hold 27 rounds. We have some very cool Caspian R&D going on in the Custom Shop.

[eerw]

Caspian is already researching a second gen magazine in the event the AWB sunsets. Two 19 rounders made to the max length of 171.25mm, will hold 28 rounds of rimless. My personal sticks measure 169mm & hold 27 rounds. We have some very cool Caspian R&D going on in the Custom Shop.

That would be very cool...I always like my Caspian guns...I had two weld up big sticks back then..one held 27 and one held 25 both worked great...

Travis..Heard you got some new guns from EGW...anything trick to them?? just curious..

[TravisT]

Nothing trick except for George's magic

[joshua]

I have 2 Craig 170mm mag tubes that are made by ProMag and they are flawless with supercomp brass but unfortunately not even 50% reliable with super brass. I also have a welded 24 rounder from craig and it has the same reliability. The first mags that came out of Caspian were good out of the box, the later ones had to get tuned to function. BTW, I can get 27 rounds in those 170mm tubes with stock Caspian follower, basepad that looks like it's a stock Para base pad, and a +10 Wolffe spring.

[AWLAZS]

Travis what about EAA mags working in a caspian??

[Bill Schwab]

You'll also need a Dawson base pad for an STI/SV and a Wolff +10% spring. 

Note: Dawson used to make a special SV 170 mm base pad that was much thinner on the bottom. They no longer have any in stock. If you can find one of these you are in great luck 'cause you don't need to file or grind this version.

Bucky,

I e-mailed you awhile back to figure out exactly which basepad to use, especially now that the mag gauge is 171.5mm. You're response was

"Well, Dawson used to make a +1 specifically for the SV mag tubes in order for the tube to meet the 170mm. They no longer make them or have them in stock. They aren't needed since you can now use the standard STI / SV base +1 pad as the mag gauge is 171.5 mm. You might want to put a WTB ad out for one of them. If not, you can buy the standard STI +1 and a really good file."

Again, I apologize for my ignorance, I am new to double stacks, so are you saying the "STI competition basepad for 140/170 mm mags" as seen in the link below will work?

http://www.stiguns.com/cgi-bin/miva?Mercha...ory_Code=MAG-BP

OR should I be going with the Dawson +1 basepad as shown here:

http://shootersconnection.com/catalog/prod...products_id=108

Again, I appreciate the patience.

[Bucky]

Here is the link from Dawson's sight.

http://www3.mailordercentral.com/shootings...tem=10&mitem=14

It's the STI/SV +1. You'll have to file the rear of the base pad on an angle to fit the mag gauge. You also may have to hog out the front and you'll need to trim the feet. I think when I was doing these, I got about 15 or so to make 29 + 1 reliably... buy only with Super Comp brass and a Lee undersize die.

[Bill Schwab]

Thanks Bucky!

[Bill Schwab]

Figured I'd report back with the progress and developments with my Craig mag.

I did as Bucky suggested: polished the feed lips, fit the Dawson basepad, fit the mag to the gauge, I even played with the feed lip gap. I was not able to get the mag to work, at all. I tried both the Craig follower and Caspian black followers. The rim of the Supercomp brass was getting caught of the back of the feed lips, and subsequently causing the bullet to nosedive into the feedramp. I took the mag apart numerous times trying every imaginable combo of spring and follower all to no avail. Then, by pure luck, or perhaps stupidity, I put my cut-down black Caspian follower is backwards, yep, that's right, backwards (the front is in the back and the back is in the front) and viola the mag runs 100% of the time I was blown away. So I stuck with that follower (in backwards) with the Wolff spring, which together hold 28 rounds. I've thought about cutting the spring and/or follower down to go for 29 rounds, but I'm so tickled that the mag is working at all that I'm hesitant to touch anything. Last weekend I used the mag through most of the whole Fredericksburg, VA match without a hitch.

Thanks again Bucky, I would have never attempted this had it not been for your advice.

BTW, with the follower in backwards I had to carve away a good portion of the follower to ensure the slide stop wasn't tripped with one round left in the mag.

[joshua]

A backward follower, Wow I'll be darn... josh

[gunther]

I have one of those 170mm Craig proMags and I have never got it to work reliable. I've tried every combination of springs and followers even caspian followers, backwards too. The rounds always nosedive and jam the gun and I can only get 25 rds in the mag.

Does anyone know who will cut and weld two mags together reasonably, Beven Grams will do it for $100. I think thats a little hi.