recon215 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Nevermind, operator error as usual. We did not buy 'second-rate bargain-basement plates', they were designed to spin, hence adding to the complexity of the shot, maybe we should have mixed it up and made some of both, but I never had one turn sideways on me and I came in 6 from the bottom (I also did not shoot five stages :-))On stage 9 I kept topping the far one down deep, but the 3rd shot got it... Steve (Scores posted tonight at http://www.midwest3gun.com) Great match!Amusing and well-designed stages, absolutely first-rate RO's, and it even ran (almost) on time (!!!)...this was a very good match. The only problem was the second-rate bargain-basement plates, which (since they lacked the little bar or "stop" of the more professional designs), had an annoying tendency to turn sideways and become unable to be dropped (10 second penalty). Since the same penalty was applied to everyone who had this happen, it was consistent...but still annoying. Upgrading these low-end plates wouldn't take much, and thus remove the problem for next year. All in all, this was an excellent match...highly recommended for next year Alex Edited June 9, 2009 by recon215 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheryl Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Squad 14 rocked!!!! The stages were great, not to mention the ROs & prize table. It was very cool to see more than one award for High Lady. Congratulations to Deb Cheek on High Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Squad 14 rocked!!!! The stages were great, not to mention the ROs & prize table. It was very cool to see more than one award for High Lady. Congratulations to Deb Cheek on High Lady. Huh? Did Dianna get an award, too? For High Lady Tactical!!?? Congrats to Deb! She did kick butt!!!! and so did Dianna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This was a good match but I concur about the plates. I saw a great many plates spin and turn sideways, often posing an impossible shot. This combined with RO interference had a major impact on some of the rankings so it is not a minor issue. That quibble being said, this was the best Midwest 3 Gun yet! The match did have a good balance of skills test. Pistol skills were not neglected making this a true 3 gun event as opposed to a rifle/shotgun match with some pistol thrown in. There was a lot of offhand rifle shooting including some fairly technical shots (on Stage 3) which is something I like. I also liked the sporting clays stage. Sporting clays appears to have made it into our game with sporting clay-esque stages appearing at last years DPMS and RM3G as well as here. This is a good trend as far as I'm concerned. Fantastic prize table as always. Congrats to the winners and a thanks to the sponsors and ROs for putting on a great event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyDog Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 "This combined with RO interference" Can you expand on this? I would like to understand what was being/not being done so that it can be corrected for next year. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The match did have a good balance of skills test. Yessiree!! The next time I need to engage bad guys out at 200 yards from the top of my ATV with 4 flat tires, they are gonna be in a world of hurt! Incredible match. RO's that were totally into us doing good, and doing it right, and doing it safely, and enjoying the match....stages that tested us on all the basics plus more....and the weather that was ordered up for the match...were all totally outstanding. c-ya next year for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Squad 14 rocked!!!! The stages were great, not to mention the ROs & prize table. It was very cool to see more than one award for High Lady. Congratulations to Deb Cheek on High Lady. Huh? Did Dianna get an award, too? For High Lady Tactical!!?? Congrats to Deb! She did kick butt!!!! and so did Dianna! Not sure about Dianna. I believe there were 4 places for Lady. Deb Cheek came in 1st, I came in 2nd, and am not sure about 3rd or 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheryl Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Squad 14 rocked!!!! The stages were great, not to mention the ROs & prize table. It was very cool to see more than one award for High Lady. Congratulations to Deb Cheek on High Lady. Huh? Did Dianna get an award, too? For High Lady Tactical!!?? Congrats to Deb! She did kick butt!!!! and so did Dianna! Not sure about Dianna. I believe there were 4 places for Lady. Deb Cheek came in 1st, I came in 2nd, and am not sure about 3rd or 4th. Oops - the above post from springy was suppose to be from me - I forgot to log him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This was my first 3-gun match so I don't have anything to compare it to. I gotta say though I had a blast. Will deffinately be back. I agree about squad 14, the RO's, Prize table and the cof's. I never had a plate spin on me... I guess you have to hit them first. My bad. I finally slowed down and used the sight for what it was intended. Note to self.... Thanks one and all for taking it easy on a new guy. Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Squad 14 rocked!!!! The stages were great, not to mention the ROs & prize table. It was very cool to see more than one award for High Lady. Congratulations to Deb Cheek on High Lady. Huh? Did Dianna get an award, too? For High Lady Tactical!!?? Congrats to Deb! She did kick butt!!!! and so did Dianna! Not sure about Dianna. I believe there were 4 places for Lady. Deb Cheek came in 1st, I came in 2nd, and am not sure about 3rd or 4th. Oops - the above post from springy was suppose to be from me - I forgot to log him out. I guess I'm confused. Are you an Open shooter? In Tactical Optics, Dianna/Diane Liedorff, I think it was, got 1st, and then Tasha Hanish. I totally missed ladies called up after Deb!! But way to go to all of you! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam Carter Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Great Match! GREAT JOB FNH & CMMG Great People! scat master , dry dock Great Range! Shotgun targets.......what a pain in the @#$. Everyone shot the same targets I just didn't shoot them well. Now for the important issues. As most of you know my team supports Adam Carter. He is a 11 year old boy with cancer. PLEASE view Adam's web site www.helpadamfightcancer.com and support as you see can. If anyone has questions please feel free to me at 217-972-9958 or Work Email Joseph.Niederbrach@Exeloncorp.com THIS MATCH IS A GO TO EVERY YEAR.............THIS WAS MY FIRST YEAR Squad 1 = Thanks for sig's on the banner! Edited June 9, 2009 by Team Adam Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polytech Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 For all of the complaining about the steel, 99% of the people who spun steel on my stage put bad shots on them, simple as that. If shot size and choke was a problem all of the people that ran the 590's or the other "defensive" shotguns would have spun all of their steel. And for those shooters who brought all of their powder-puff loads because there was no power factor, well that was the gamble for gaming it. When its all said and done, I had a lot of pleasant shooters come through my stage and a lot of them who worked real hard to score and re-set and kept up the hustle for their whole squad. And the appriciative thanks that we got at the end of a few squads goes a long way to bring us back the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJRiddle Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 When its all said and done, I had a lot of pleasant shooters come through my stage and a lot of them who worked real hard to score and re-set and kept up the hustle for their whole squad. And the appriciative thanks that we got at the end of a few squads goes a long way to bring us back the next year. The Minnesota crew is certainly looking forward to seeing you in the red shirts next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
705 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 It was very good match and the RO's where great. I would like to thanks FN and the RO's for there hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 For all of the complaining about the steel, 99% of the people who spun steel on my stage put bad shots on them, simple as that. If shot size and choke was a problem all of the people that ran the 590's or the other "defensive" shotguns would have spun all of their steel. And for those shooters who brought all of their powder-puff loads because there was no power factor, well that was the gamble for gaming it. When its all said and done, I had a lot of pleasant shooters come through my stage and a lot of them who worked real hard to score and re-set and kept up the hustle for their whole squad. And the appriciative thanks that we got at the end of a few squads goes a long way to bring us back the next year. While I have to agree that 99% of the spun plates were because of bad shots, I also have to agree with Kurt that some were spun when shooting at a different target because they were set too close together, like on the big shotgun stage. I think this was the first 3-gun match where I actually changed chokes. I used a skeet for stage two, and the "sporting clays" stage in the woods, improved cylinder on stage 6, and modified on the big course. I also mixed in a few spreaders for the clays, which I really think helped me hit them. I saw plates spun with handgun, and MOST of the time, the shooter was screwed, but, I did hear of one guy that lucked out and managed an edge shot. But, it was still a fun match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Jarmo and I ran a 20 gauge at the match, with a light modified choke in it, 7/8 ounce #8 trap loads. Had no problems knocking any of the steel down. In fact, the only stage I had steel go sideways on me was Stage 5....with the SLP 12 gauge. Turned it a perfect 90 degrees, to the point where I thought I had actually knocked it off the stand. man....I hate those whimpy 12 gauge's On stage 7, we went with the open bore on the steel and clays....again, no problems knocking down steel. It all comes down to this......if you had problems knocking down steel. It wasn't the choke, or shot size, or shell selection.......it was the gauge selection. Need I say more?? Seriously, I did like the steel over the clay birds.....from experience, I knew there was going to be a problem with plates turning so I went with a tighter choke. I don't think the selection of the targets was the match directors fault. It was something I saw, and adapted to solve the problem. They could modify the stand bases for future matches if they wanted to, by welding a .5 x 1 strip of steel on the front, letting the back lip of the plate base hang off by 1". If you hit it, it'll fall. Ofcourse, there is probably 3 other ways they could skin that cat too......or leave it be and drive on. Edited June 10, 2009 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 It was a blast shooting with you guys. Glad I could entertain with the stories!!! Keep in touch and we will do it again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am really happy to see they've found a way to put all the lady shooters together for awards. So many times, there are not enough gals shooting in each division in order to get awards. With the time only scoring, it looks to me that they took each lady's percentage within their respective divisions, which gives a pretty good comparison from one shooter to the other, even tho they are in different divisions. They are compared to the top shooter in each division. Normally an open shooter would always have a better time, but doing the percentage against the top shooter in the division eliminates specific gun issues. It may not be exactly 100% on the money, but it is sure close enough to get all the gals into the prize mix. Good thinkin, and many thanks for all your efforts for the competitors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polytech Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 When its all said and done, I had a lot of pleasant shooters come through my stage and a lot of them who worked real hard to score and re-set and kept up the hustle for their whole squad. And the appriciative thanks that we got at the end of a few squads goes a long way to bring us back the next year. The Minnesota crew is certainly looking forward to seeing you in the red shirts next year! I'm half tempted to shoot the dang match so I can post some decent scores. Its tough to shoot well after a full day of running back and forth with 80-some shooters, then gearing up and trying to get stage or two in before dark it does not make for good scores. If I don't RO next year I expect a slot on the MN squad PTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 You would be welcome on the Minnesota squad. As long as you can keep up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccur Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I am really happy to see they've found a way to put all the lady shooters together for awards. So many times, there are not enough gals shooting in each division in order to get awards. With the time only scoring, it looks to me that they took each lady's percentage within their respective divisions, which gives a pretty good comparison from one shooter to the other, even tho they are in different divisions. They are compared to the top shooter in each division. Normally an open shooter would always have a better time, but doing the percentage against the top shooter in the division eliminates specific gun issues. It may not be exactly 100% on the money, but it is sure close enough to get all the gals into the prize mix. Good thinkin, and many thanks for all your efforts for the competitors! Actually, it is hard to compare any open shotgun scores with any tactical shotgun scores...Open shotgunners are always going to have a better time because of the Tec Loaders... Why not an award for top Tactical Lady and Top Open Lady? , I think their sponsors would like to see them recognized...By my count there were 6 ladies in Tactical and 1 lady in Open.... my $.02 Cheryl : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTGA Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Great match and prize table, thanks FN, CMMG, DPMS, Cold Steel, ERGO, and all who contributed. The steel was just another challenge. Look forward to next year. LTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I'm starting to get the POV video up on Youtube: As for the match: Thursday we showed up to register and check the stages. We were told our info was bad and that registration was on Friday. If we'd known that we'd've saved the hour of driving and gas and stayed in town. Friday we spent 13 hours at the range for 10 minutes of shooting--not good--not fun Saturday we shot one stage on time but still left at 5:30--better than Fri. Sunday we shot late again(I don't know how late)rain and lightening a factor. The awards seemed a little unorganized. You really couldn't tell what was for which division and there were people crowded all around the front of the tables. I have no I idea what the top prizes were in Open or any class for that matter??? The majority of my problems were my own but some were caused by the steel. Both the shotgun plates and the rifle steel. Stage 6 rifle I engaged the furthest flasher array left target and hit it multiple times before I finally hit it high enough to flash. I complained to the ROs after completing and they said nothing was wrong. Since the super squad was following us the steel was checked by Ken and found out the flasher was not were it was supposed to be. One bright shooter on our squad asked for a squad reshoot and we were allowed to reshoot if we wanted to on Sunday. Stage 1 on Sunday morning I got to the rifle part and shot both positions at the flashers no problem. Went to the long fall-downs and watched multiple hits on the left steel before it slowly fell over. The rest went down fine(I think ). I'm guessing the 50 grain bullets @ 3250 fps didn't have enough punch for some of the plates. I made sure the rest of the squad was watching close for the rest of the shooters and at least 2 other shooters had hits without scoring--1 time on a flasher. In conclusion I'm glad FNH is able to put on a match every year. This was obviously not my year to do well . I thought the Range staff was very good and helpfull especially Ken and Larry. I don't like the shoot and then wait an hour format. I'm sure there are reasons for it but it's just too much time to be waiting around. I thought some of the longer stages could have been shorter and still accomplished the same amount of targets. I don't know if the squad ahead of us was abnormal but it seemed they never started on time on the 1st stage. I think maybe the ROs were too lax on getting the squad started on schedule?? I would've like to have known that I needed to bring some heavier shot and rifle ammo to complement my normal stuff. I'm sure that's SOP for the people who know what there doing but how Many of those were there? Not me. Mongo like to pull trigger he-he-he! I Hope the match will continue year after year and get better at making it fun. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Actually, it is hard to compare any open shotgun scores with any tactical shotgun scores...Open shotgunners are always going to have a better time because of the Tec Loaders... Cheryl : They didn't. They compared the open shooters to the top open shooter, and the TO shooters to the top TO shooter, and TI. Then they used the percentage to compare how each shooter did within their own division. If someone shot 50% in open, and someone else shot 60% in TO, then the TO shooter was considered higher. If one of the divisions has a "D" class shooter as the high shooter, then it doesn't really work, but at the big matches, there are some pretty good shooters at the top to compare to - like Horner and Johnson. What's really nice is everyone is in the pot, not just TO or Open. In a Time-added match, the percentage is actually comparing stage/match times. I'm thinking the comparison also works in a USPSA match. My point is, since the matches usually call it "must be 3 to do a trophy", this would make every match a High Lady trophy match, maybe 2nd and 3rd or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine and not worth much in today's economy (but at least they weren't on loan from China). Just my observations as someone who shoots this stuff for fun at my own expense with no chance of winning much. It was a fun match but, personally, I thought last year was better. Guess I am a minority on this one. Most of the stages were good but it all ran slower than necessary with the squadding times. Part of this was the majority of the targets were for shotgun which is the lowest capacity and slowest to reload. I think splitting to AM/PM /Friday/Saturday format would speed things up and not constantly having a squad (or 2) waiting to shoot. Stage 1 ended up contorting the shooter on the ATV like a bear humping a football. Changing to just having to shoot off/over the ATV instead of having to keep both feet off the ground would have helped this run faster. The rest of the stage was great. Other than my rifle only going bang every other time I pulled the trigger. Thank you CMMG for the new hammer spring. Stage 2 was a hoot on the backwards cart even though my Benelli bloodied my thumb without mercy. Stage 3 would have been faster by scrapping the no shoots around the windows. The shots were already partial targets and the no shoots just slowed most shooters down even more. Again, making the stage slower than it needed to be. And the run through tube did little more than cause injury to those who slipped on the wet metal and crashed in the tube. Ask me how I know. Stage 4 was a good stage with one suggestion- more rifle or pistol and less shotgun. Stage 5 was fun in gettting to shoot three guns I have never shot before. Stage 6 again made use of the tower. Great course but much time could have been saved by shooting all three guns from the tower. Target arrays could have remained much as they were and shot in the same sequence. Just trying to speed things up without cutting round count. This one had a lot of square plate spinner problems. Stage 7 was fast and fun. I enjoyed seeing something different like this in a course of fire. Stage 8 was also great as I love jungle courses. A bit slow to reset and tape but a really fun stage. Wish I had realized I had my optic on 4X at the start............duh Stage 9 was OK in the number of targets but layout was a bit odd. Sometimes multiple targets could be taken with one shot and one plate was too far back for most chokes and loads folks I watched shoot were using. Several shots were sometimes necessary to knock that plate off even when obviously hit. Liked the high round count stage again. I am still waiting to see a CQB rifle stage at this match with around a 40 rd count. They are a blast. Many remarked about the square plates. I have shot a lot of these kind of plates and agree with the quality issue and not the made to be difficult arguement. These things would spin around by the wind before you got to them, so when you have to shoot them, you already have a partial plate. Several times this happened and no one on our squad got a reshoot from obvious range malfunctions. Hopefully they will fix the plates or stands before next year so that won't be an issue. They should fall when hit and stay put when not hit. Period. Also, due to some awkward shooting positions or spinning plates, many folks timed out. This slowed the match down. Just a few stage design and and prop corrections could save a lot of time per shooter and made the match go faster with less standing around waiting. I realize a match needs to challenge shooters, especially the top shooters. But the majority of those in the match are average at this game. And look at the number of Seniors and Super Seniors..... Us old busted up guys aren't as agile as we once were and some of the stages push the limits of our mobility more than shooting ability. Overall it was a fun match, ROs were top notch and extremely helpful, and the prize table was decent. Thanks to all who worked hard to set it up and make it happen. And many thanks to the sponsors and those that donated products to the table. We are lucky in that it's just a few hours drive for us so we will be back again next year. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now