Can’t shoot Glocks – me & the trigger, or just the gun?

[cledford]

OK, I’m at wits end – either I can’t shoot Glocks, or the Glocks can’t shoot. I’ve owned a 21, 35, 24, 22, 27 and 17L. Out of all of them, the only one I’d say I had adequate groups with were the 21 and the 22(?!) The rest, including the long slides were/are pitiful when I’m involved. I’ve been a bullseye shooter (several custom 1911s) IDPA (Beretta 92), police officer (38/357 revolvers & Beretta) and have dabbled in bowling pin and action shooting with the M21 and various 1911s. Based on my skills with guns other than Glocks I would rate myself as a very good shot. This is a not a “bash Glocks” thread – I’m truly trying to figure this out. As I mentioned the only one I’ve owned that had close to one hole accuracy up 15yards and shot around 2-3 inches at 25 was the 22! I found this very surprising given the assumed accuracy of the “target” Glocks. The 35 & 24 were just plain horrible, even at 7 yards it was difficult to put 5 rounds touching – while any of the other guns I’ve owned, well I’d be embarrassed if I couldn’t put all shots through a single hole at 7 yards. This just doesn’t make sense to me.

Today was the latest twist. I took my new 17L out to the range, along with my carry Sig P250 compact, to burn up some premium federal 9mm ammo. This was the first outing for the Glock since purchase. The groups at 7 again (I guess my starting off point) were lousy – it was very difficult to put all shots close to touching. At 15 yards, the group opened up to about 4x6!!! This is after a week of dry firing the glock. I then break out the Sig p250 (double action only, which anyone would expect to be harder to shoot) and one hole (repeated 4 times of 5 shots at 4 1” pasters) at 7 yards and then about a 3 inch group at 15.

I had purchased the 17L as I guess I’ve always wanted a tack driving Glock. I’d guessed that my issues with the 35 & 24 were actually related to their barrel length – in that the extra velocity might be messing with accuracy – I came to this conclusion based on the outstanding accuracy I’d experienced with the 22. So, I sold them and bought the 17L as the 9mm is actually a very inherently accurate round – more so than even the benchmark 45acp. I figured if I were to find a truly accurate Glock, the longest barrel and the fundamentally most accurate cartridge would have to be it. I was pretty disappointed today.

Anyhow, I’ve seen this over and over. I can shoot my 1911s, my berettas, sigs and revolvers (even under timed conditions) – but not Glocks. I’ve now simply got to find out why. I cannot figure how I can take a defensive pistol (Sig p250) with half the length of barrel and a DAO trigger and shoot twice as good groups (using same ammo) as the target pistol.

I can shoot single action pistols just fine and am just about as good with the DAO kind. Having said that, could it be something weird between me and the striker system of the Glock? I would say that when dry firing the Glock that, unless I am very careful I will often notice a lateral movement (to the right and back to the left) of the front sight if I do not pull the trigger perfectly. I seldom if ever notice this with any other handgun. Could it be something like the trigger in conjunction with the grip angle or size? I’m not sure, but would really like to figure this out.

Thanks for any input and sorry if I seem to be picking on Glocks or immodest about my opinion of my shooting skills, I just really want to figure this out. I’m ready to go out and dump a ton of cash into a Fulcrum trigger with all of the goodies, but am concerned that ~$300 later, I still might not be seeing what I like, if the issue isn't the trigger pull, but more related to some wierd dynamic with the striker system. It may seem silly and a lot of people have said, “why keep messing with them if they aren’t for you?” I guess it is the challenge, figuring out the unknown and the fact that I *really* like the guns – just can’t see to shoot them half as good as any other pistol I’ve ever picked up…

-Calvin

[lugnut]

Not really sure what to say. You can get a nice drop in trigger from Vanek... that's all I use in my Glocks which I use in IDPA/USPSA. I will say that the 21 I have was amazing accurate. These days I can usually do 3" groups freestyle at 50' pretty consistently- with the Glocks I use.

Glocks aren't know to be the most accurate guns out there... but very good for IDPA/USPSA where reliability is an equally important asset. And they are damn easy to work on, inexpensive, etc.

Don't force the issue... just let it happen.

[trevoro]

Every Glock I've ever shot has had acceptable accuracy.

Are you shooting off a bench?

"(to the right and back to the left)" The sights are moving both directions in the trigger pull?

[hal1955]

I don't consider myself a great shot but i have 2 G17's that will print into one ragged hole at 12m from the bench. That's with my handloads, my own trigger job, and aftermarket sights.

[Beans]

I just shot my first IDPA style match with a G35. Several of my targets had 2 shots touching (Double taps) creating a figure "8"

I am shooting 2.9 grains of Clays, with a Magma 180 Gr bullet, cast from wheel weights, WSP primers, white label BAC lube and mixed brass. PF 130

I have been a Cowboy action shooter for over 20 yers and wanted to try something different.

The only thing I have done to the G35 was to replace the stock barrel with a Storm Lake barrel so that I can shoot lead bullets.

I can put all 15 rds slow fire,using a modified weaver stance into the "X" ring of the B-34 target ( reduced Silhouette) at 20 yards.

I have a shooting buddy that can't shoot the Glock at all. The trigger gets him. He does fine with the 1911 platform, the BHP and S&W revolvers.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Beans

[Glk21C]

maybe it's as simple as the grip angle of a Glock just doesn't work for you either? Good luck

[Rolex]

Sell them all- TO ME!

Just kidding. I have two

34/35 with CV drop in

triggers- No problems

here hitting the X mark's.

[Apiarian]

Off hand (pun) without seeing you shoot, I'd say it starts with your grip on the gun. From there everything else gets magnified. I have noticed that some people do not seat a Glock well into the web and palm of the hand. In other words if right handed the thumb and lower thumb pad is not far enough to the left of the gun grip. This is more noticeable if you are shooting with the two thumbs forward style of grip as your thumbs will not set properly into each other. BTW: this does not mean the person has small hands, just they are gripping the Glock like they have small hands. My son has size 13 1/2 shoes and hands to match but was making this gripping error with the Glock.

If someone has a picture of the two thumb forward grip I'm sure it would be helpful. I don't have one.

Hope this is helpful.

[boo radley]

If you're using the stock sights and trigger, I'm not surprised you're having problems getting good groups. Both are notoriously awful. I'm not sure what a "$300 Fulcrum Trigger" is, but there are a number of inexpensive options.

I have had/have a number of Glocks, and found the .40's a bit more accurate -- the G24 (very) and G35 (some) than the 9's; a G17 and two G34's. The 9mm pistols were also very ammo sensitive vis-a-vis accuracy, and liked 115gr Blazer the best outside of certain reloads. In fact, when I first got a G34, I ended up sending to Smyrna, complaining that it wasn't accurate. 5 weeks later (!) I got it back with a new locking block and a test target @15y that was 'ok,' but not exactly inspiring.

Even with a better trigger and sights, the system is still somewhat funky and it takes a lot of rounds downrange before your freestyle groups start shrinking. On the bench, I couldn't come close, from a rest, at 25yards with a Glock to what I can get with my 19/2011's, period.

[Jman]

Sounds like nothing more than your technique. At practical distances bullets strike what the muzzle was covering at the moment of ignition. You could be in that one percentile that simply can't or won't shoot Glocks well. What perplexes me is that you seem to know this. Yet you buy and buy and...

Calvin. Find one and just shoot the s#!t out of it. Replace worn barrel and repeat.

Jim

[Five of Clubs]

I can totally identify with the OP. I shoot a .45ACP 1911 far more accurately than I do my Glock. Dawson sites definitely improved my accuracy but it's still not as good as the 1911. One thing I've noticed that really helps (I'm right-handed) is to leave my right hand gripping only lightly and bear down much harder with my left hand as I shoot (left hand over the right). You sound like a guy that shoots very well, and you're probably doing that already. What I'm saying is to really exaggerate that and see if you notice a difference. It helped me and it's easy to try.

Oddly enough, I shoot a 1911 more accurately but I enjoy shooting my Glock much more. Not sure what that means.

[Micah]

With as many platform options that are available to shooters today, I guess that I don't understand why someone would force themselves to shoot a pistol that the don't care for. CZ, M&P, XDM, Beretta...there are plenty of Production options out there. In Limited the sky is the limit

[JH Daniels]

I would suggest that instead of the standard 1911 grip that you put your weak hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard, and concentrate on breaking the trigger. Warren Tactical fiberoptic front and plain rear will help accuracy as it is a smaller front site. Also I have found that 124gr bullets tend to shoot high ( above point of aim) in the 9mm. I have every one of the 9mm Glocks and they all are pretty accurate, I shot a expert score with a Glock 26 in a IDPA classifier even the sub compact has acceptable accuracy.

[A-shot]

Shoot from trigger reset, dryfire a little, and your groups will shrink by 50%. If that doesn't help, stay with the 1911 platform, but it's not the gun, promise.

[Micah]

There is only one top shooter that I know of (Angus Hobdell) that places his left hand index finger on the trigger guard. Everyone else wraps it around the grip. And it doesn't matter what weight of bullet you use...as long as your sights have been installed correctly and you have a smooth trigger pull, the bullet will impact where you are aiming at.

[ede]

with my favorite match load, a G22, and ransom rest i got 3" groups at 75'. with WW white box the groups were around 9".

[Graham Smith]

The grip on a Glock is different from a 1911 or Sig, etc. My grip doesn't ride as high and the size, shape and angle of the grip result in a tenancy on my part to get too much of my finger into the trigger guard, so when I squeeze the trigger, I tend to impart a small amount of movement to the gun itself.

Not to be flippant, but maybe you should stop buying Glocks. Seriously, some guns work better for some people and you appear to be one of those who doesn't get along with Glocks. It's likely not you or the gun but the combination.

[Apiarian]

It is interesting we never heard back from the original poster. All of this and no response.

[badchad]

There is only one top shooter that I know of (Angus Hobdell) that places his left hand index finger on the trigger guard.

FWIW Jerry Barnhart did too, Eric Grauffel still does.