ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I won't mention the match and I wasn't a witness (and I may not be getting the entire story), but I heard that a person got DQ'ed at a major match for holstering his gun without engaging the safety. I understand the rules...I'm a RO and I've even RO'ed at this major match in the past. HOWEVER, if this happened it seems a little extreme. I think a warning before the DQ would have been appropriate. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) I guess I should have read the post better. I though it was before holstering, not once in the holster. Edited May 7, 2009 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Match Disqualification – General Regulations 10.5.11 Holstering a loaded handgun, in any of the following conditions: 10.5.11.1 A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied. 10.5.11.2 A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied. 10.5.11.3 A revolver with the hammer cocked. We can warn for "finger" and "muzzle", but when you have seen the scars from a friend plinking one in his own leg from doing the same thing, a warning might be hard to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) I hate being at a shoot when a good rule is over looked. Not putting the safe on means that the shooter had a laps in attention. it normally takes three steps past stupid to cause a "Bad Thing" to happen. No way to know if the laps was #1 or #2 Edited May 7, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Match Disqualification – General Regulations10.5.11 Holstering a loaded handgun, in any of the following conditions: 10.5.11.1 A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied. 10.5.11.2 A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied. 10.5.11.3 A revolver with the hammer cocked. Yeah, I'm aware of the rule. My point is that I think it might be a little extreme without a 1st warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I think Bobby's point is that this is one mistake that can cause serious injury RIGHT NOW. If the gun does go off (and I know of one instance where it did just that) the shooter will go down with a bullet through his or her leg. If it hits an artery they have a very good chance of dying. The safety rules are there for a reason and should not be discretionary especially when it is clearly apparent that the infraction occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) I think Bobby's point is that this is one mistake that can cause serious injury RIGHT NOW. If the gun does go off (and I know of one instance where it did just that) the shooter will go down with a bullet through his or her leg. If it hits an artery they have a very good chance of dying.The safety rules are there for a reason and should not be discretionary especially when it is clearly apparent that the infraction occurred. OK, so do you be a dick RO and immediately DQ him without giving him the chance to fix the problem? [edit] ....I guess once you issue the "Are you ready" command, then you know the guy is going down the unsafe road and THAT's when you DQ him. Regarding the gun going off...if you give the warning first, then he fixes the problem and the gun can't go off. However, if he continues to holster without the safety on, then I feel the DQ is justified. Edited May 7, 2009 by ExtremeShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Nowhere in the book does it say it is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I think Bobby's point is that this is one mistake that can cause serious injury RIGHT NOW. If the gun does go off (and I know of one instance where it did just that) the shooter will go down with a bullet through his or her leg. If it hits an artery they have a very good chance of dying.The safety rules are there for a reason and should not be discretionary especially when it is clearly apparent that the infraction occurred. OK, so do you be a dick RO and immediately DQ him without giving him the chance to fix the problem? Yes Sir! That way that shooter does not have to learn the painful lesson my friend did. Hopefully the DQ will sting him bad enough he will focus on the task at hand. If he can't get into the game enough to make his gun safe, what's next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Nowhere in the book does it say it is optional. Yeah yeah, I understand. I'm just arguing that maybe the option to warn once should be allowed in this particular situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Nowhere in the book does it say it is optional. Yeah yeah, I understand. I'm just arguing that maybe the option to warn once should be allowed in this particular situation. There is no option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yes Sir! That way that shooter does not have to learn the painful lesson my friend did. Hopefully the DQ will sting him bad enough he will focus on the task at hand. If he can't get into the game enough to make his gun safe, what's next? OK...so I'm the shooter and I just realized that I holstered with the safety off; HOWEVER, before I can draw my gun again to put the safety on, the RO yells out "Stop - Your DQ'ed for holster a gun without the safety.."???? .....this in my opinion is a major DICK move because it does not give the shooter the opportunity to fix the problem. That gun in the holster with the safety off is no more unsafe than the gun in his hand two seconds before. I think the guy should have the opportunity to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I think Bobby's point is that this is one mistake that can cause serious injury RIGHT NOW. If the gun does go off (and I know of one instance where it did just that) the shooter will go down with a bullet through his or her leg. If it hits an artery they have a very good chance of dying.The safety rules are there for a reason and should not be discretionary especially when it is clearly apparent that the infraction occurred. OK, so do you be a dick RO and immediately DQ him without giving him the chance to fix the problem? [edit] ....I guess once you issue the "Are you ready" command, then you know the guy is going down the unsafe road and THAT's when you DQ him. Regarding the gun going off...if you give the warning first, then he fixes the problem and the gun can't go off. However, if he continues to holster without the safety on, then I feel the DQ is justified. Its a slippery slope, the safety violation happened at the instant the gun was being put into the holster, ="Just Like" if the same shooter had kept his finger on the trigger when he reholsterd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 OK, so do you be a dick RO and immediately DQ him without giving him the chance to fix the problem? Yes, without the slightest doubt, that would be an instant DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 There is no option. I KNOW there is currently no option. That's the whole freaking point of my thread! I'm trying to get you to consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 OK, so do you be a dick RO and immediately DQ him without giving him the chance to fix the problem? I don't see it as a dick move. DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Yes Sir! That way that shooter does not have to learn the painful lesson my friend did. Hopefully the DQ will sting him bad enough he will focus on the task at hand. If he can't get into the game enough to make his gun safe, what's next? OK...so I'm the shooter and I just realized that I holstered with the safety off; HOWEVER, before I can draw my gun again to put the safety on, the RO yells out "Stop - Your DQ'ed for holster a gun without the safety.."???? .....this in my opinion is a major DICK move because it does not give the shooter the opportunity to fix the problem. That gun in the holster with the safety off is no more unsafe than the gun in his hand two seconds before. I think the guy should have the opportunity to fix the problem. You can not undo a safety violation. You can not unbreak the 180, so how can you undo your DQ action? You have it pointed out, take it like a man, help RO/paste for the day and remember to put the safety on. We should not even think of a rule book revision that eases up on any safety rule we have. Edited May 7, 2009 by Fireant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I for one am a little peeved that the d**k word is being repeatable applied to an R.O. doing his job based on the rule book for a serious safety infraction. I, for one, don't believe you can bend these rules...like glass, they can only be broken. Slippery slope indeed. I don't want to be the R.O. that gave someone a break...and ends up with an injured shooter or worse. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) You can not undo a safety violation. You can not unbreak the 180, so how can you undo your DQ action? You have it pointed out, take it like a man, help RO/paste for the day and remember to put the safety on. We should not even think of a rule book revision that eases up on any safety rule we have. In my theoretical situation where the shooter has the option is allowed to fix the problem before starting and/or the RO gives him the warning, the safety violation wouldn't occur until the "Are you ready" command. edited Edited May 7, 2009 by ExtremeShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 You can not undo a safety violation. You can not unbreak the 180, so how can you undo your DQ action? You have it pointed out, take it like a man, help RO/paste for the day and remember to put the safety on. We should not even think of a rule book revision that eases up on any safety rule we have. In my theoretical situation where the shooter is allowed to fix the problem before starting and/or the RO gives him the warning, the safety violation wouldn't occur until the "Are you ready" command. The safety being off and the gun in the holster isn't the problem. It's the action of placing the gun there with the safety off that is the problem. The safety infraction has already been committed. DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 But the infraction occurs the moment he breaks a written rule in the rule book which is holstering a loaded weapon without the safety applied. The result is a match DQ. I understand wanting to be the nice guy, and YOU have that available to YOU as the RO, and if you want to allow the shooter to "make safe" then go for it. I just want to learn how to take the bullet back that went through my friends leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 In my theoretical situation where the shooter is allowed to fix the problem before starting and/or the RO gives him the warning, the safety violation wouldn't occur until the "Are you ready" command. Sorry, the safety violation has already occurred. You cannot FIX this infraction. Like breaking the 180, it cannot be undone. DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 In my theoretical situation where the shooter is allowed to fix the problem before starting and/or the RO gives him the warning, the safety violation wouldn't occur until the "Are you ready" command. Sorry, the safety violation has already occurred. You cannot FIX this infraction. Like breaking the 180, it cannot be undone. DQ. Yup, there is no "when" in 10.5.11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 There is no option. I KNOW there is currently no option. That's the whole freaking point of my thread! I'm trying to get you to consider it. well, no one is reconsidering the rule as seen by the responses. It is a big SAFETY violation. we cannot compromise safety infractions that can cause injury and/or death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Under your situation then, it would be OK to unholster my gun at the MR command and then turn and face uprange, use my pistol as a pointer for where my range bag or car is located then face back down range before the "are you ready" command and I'm OK right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts