Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This is a one of a kind (for the moment) open gun built by Bruce Gray at Grayguns Inc. Bruce started building these guns back in the '80s but it has been 22 years since the last one was made. The last time one of these babies was birthed was 1987, until just last night.... Per a request from a customer, Bruce has agreed to start modifying the P7M13 into a Compensated, Long Slide, Race Gun once again. Here is a picture of what they looked like in the '80s for open division (I believe it was actually called Unlimited Division at the time). I thought I'd share some pics with you guys on this truly sweet project. Here are a couple of the comp being welded to the slide. Here's a shot of the comp after the ports were milled in. This extremely effective comp is a single, very large expansion chamber with two vertical ports. The barrel is left the stock length. I was commissioned to build the charging handle for this project. Scott was commissioned to build the scope mount. He started with a pre existing extrusion and measured, cut, remeasured, swore and cut again until he had a scope mount worthy of such a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Bruce assembling his latest creation. Finally nearing completion. You can see the masterfully sculpted beaver tail that Torie was commissioned to build. You can't see it real well here, but the back strap has been hand checkered at 30LPI and fully bordered by Bruce himself. IT IS DONE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Here goes nothin'. (Notice the 170mm 25rd mag made by welding together two M13 mags). IT LIVES!!! Of coarse Bruce got to fire the first shots, Scott got them on video. I know it's a bit dark, it was just about midnight when we got it back together and Bruce had to get on a plane only 1 hour later to deliver it to a customer in MA at one of our training classes. We'll get more daylight videos of it shooting before we ship it off finally. My exclamation in the video was a response to how little muzzle flip there was. I shot a stock one just the day before and I hated how much muzzle rise it had. This one literally hardly moved at all during firing. Once the customer shoots it this weekend at the training class it will come back for a little more refinement, any changes the customer wants made, and then it will get sent off for Melonite to even up the coloration on the whole gun to a consistent black. Here is a link to an album with a few more pics from the build: http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d65/Flor...0Class%20P7M13/ Edited May 1, 2009 by Rln_21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_Sorah Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Looks awesome. Is there any way the grip can be pinned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flork Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Looks awesome. Is there any way the grip can be pinned? If you did that, the gun could not safely be holstered as you would have defeated one of the principal safeties of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 The grip doesn't really pose that much of a challenge with some practice. It takes about 10lb of pressure to cock the gun but only 2lb to maintain the grip. You cock it on the way to full extension so there is no time lost there. The one part of that that makes it really fast to run is that the squeeze cocker drops the slide so after a reload you squeeze the grip on the way back to full extension and the slide closes, no slide catch or overhand grasp and release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Wow, that's some pretty cool work! I recall they get really hot when you put a bunch of rounds through them....makes me wonder how that's all going to work out. I'm not sure it'll be the most competitive setup, but it's way high on the CDI (chicks dig it) scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybrosh Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 OMG...! This is beautiful! I miss my M13.... I've only seen Bruce Gray design on paper. Seeing it in color is simply priceless. What about some chrome??? and some Karl Knill wooden grips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) I recall they get really hot when you put a bunch of rounds through them....makes me wonder how that's all going to work out.I'm not sure it'll be the most competitive setup, but it's way high on the CDI (chicks dig it) scale! We put about 70 rounds through it in around 5 minutes and the slide was only starting to get warm where as usually that would get it pretty hot; the extra mass and expansion chamber seems to help greatly in that regard as well. It won't be the most competitive due to mag capacity but I think a really good shooter who trained with the system could do pretty well. Edited May 1, 2009 by Rln_21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Lady Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 WOW, this is one of the craziest guns I have ever seen. Does the frame really heat up? I remember this being a problem out of my P7M8 after only a couple of rounds. How many of these were made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 WOW, this is one of the craziest guns I have ever seen. Does the frame really heat up? I remember this being a problem out of my P7M8 after only a couple of rounds. How many of these were made? See the post above yours about the heating issue. This is the first one made within the last 22 years; in the early '80s Bruce made several although they were not optically sighted, I think he made less than 10, probably closer to 5 back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It will probably be one of the more reliable raceguns. I think it's cool stuff man. Maybe you can wrap some of the grip in rubber where it gets hot or something. How well does that Hakko style red dot hold up on that gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybrosh Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 On ordinary P7's, the slide heats up pretty fast, not the grips, and there's a heat shield above the trigger guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 It will probably be one of the more reliable raceguns. I think it's cool stuff man. Maybe you can wrap some of the grip in rubber where it gets hot or something. How well does that Hakko style red dot hold up on that gun? I really don't think heat is going to be an issue, we shot 70 rds in under five minutes and the slide was no more hot than any other gun would be. I can't think of very many matches where you would shoot more than that in less time. That red dot is only a temporary set up for the weekend, I think the customer is going to put a C-More on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Here is a picture of what they looked like in the '80s for open division (I believe it was actually called Unlimited Division at the time). In the 80's there were no divisions, it was just IPSC, run what you brung. Cool gun, I remember seeing articles on one of those way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunracer38 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I have a P7 M 13 which is 98 percent condition. Even though I would never consider it for an open gun,you must give credit for the genius of this build. I have always loved H&K products 91,93 etc. I have always shot open and find many new ideas from all the members. Stay on the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I hate to see two M13 mags get sacrificed...those are rarified already... Neat build to be sure. Flork - Nice to see you on THE board...are you still playing with my Blackbird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flork Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I hate to see two M13 mags get sacrificed...those are rarified already...Neat build to be sure. Flork - Nice to see you on THE board...are you still playing with my Blackbird? I just refinished your slide lock lever yesterday, it's ready to test today. I'll get it tested and ready to roll out on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 So is the long slide only for the addition of the comp?? The barrel looks to be the standard length. Very high cool factor though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 So is the long slide only for the addition of the comp?? The barrel looks to be the standard length. Very high cool factor though. Correct, standard length barrel. The extension is a very large expansion chamber that really slow the slide velocity down and gives it nearly no muzzle rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Very cool modification! Will it make major? Its funny at the matches I have shot my P7 at people TELL me how hot they get ,Not been a big issue so far.The hottest its been was shooting some higher round count stages in S. Texas. 170mm mags huh........I do have some extra mags laying arround. Rennie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I have lusted after one of these ever since I saw them back in the 80's. Nice to see a new one, don't want to know what it cost. Neal in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i may be on drugs, but i kinda remember bruce built a sig p-210 steel gun for angelo to shoot at the steel challenge back then as well. it was sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rln_21 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 i may be on drugs, but i kinda remember bruce built a sig p-210 steel gun for angelo to shoot at the steel challenge back then as well. it was sweet. Well I don't know about you being on drugs, but Bruce did build him a P210 back then for that purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i may be on drugs, but i kinda remember bruce built a sig p-210 steel gun for angelo to shoot at the steel challenge back then as well. it was sweet. Well I don't know about you being on drugs, but Bruce did build him a P210 back then for that purpose... if u see him-say hi-we go way back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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