sigfla Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I have been knocking em dead lately in all my outdoor matches and have no problems with speed and accuracy. However my indoor shooting has been lousy at best. I can cut a ragged hole from the back of the firing line in the standard bay but once I move up and shoot in the open area (for a match) I can't seem to hit anything. My slow fire drills are very accurate and my speed drills are also good from the line. My problem has been out in the open area of the range. I have tried double plugs thinking that might be the issue. My range is rather dark most times and seeing my sights is an issue but even when I feel I have a good sight picture I find myself dropping shots all over the target even at close range. I am beginning to think I am just cursed at the indoor range. What am i doing wrong here? Any suggestions or is this maybe just a mind job I have conditioned myself into. Has anyone else experienced that same issues? One range out of 10 you normally shoot and you just never seem to perform there. So much so that every time you walk in you dread the result..... I am really frustrated with this not so much b/c my overall score was poor but b/c there were several times where I was 100% sure I was making an down zero hit and my shots dropped into the down 3 or were clean misses. The end result didn't bother me as much as the execution itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well you need to figure out the root cause of the issue. Is it the poor lighting affecting your ability to see a clear sight picture? or is it the louder Bang causing you to flinch? Or maybe both? The lighting should be easy to replicate outside. Go get some cheap sunglasses that are SUPER dark then do some shooting outdoors with them towards the end of the day. Do your hits start to suffer? As for the "Bang" you can do the same test outdoors by setting up some solid wood walls on both sides of you as you shoot down range. This will contain the shock wave of the blast and expose you more to it like it would when you are indoors. For me, getting over the "BANG" was only done by going to the local indoor ranges and purposfully picking a stall next to someone shooting a large caliber loud gun. Then I would point my gun on target, not shooting, and keep the sights aligned while the other guy was shooting. The whole time focusing on the front sight and trying not to induce any movement into the gun while the other people are shooting. Before you know it, you zone it out, or at least I did. Now when I go to the public indoor range I look forward to shooting next to the guys with the loud guns because I see it as more practice on tuning out the shock wave and bang of their gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Aside from the added noise and blast, I've found that indoor light is a really bugger to be consistent with. Typically, there is not one single light source, but several overlapping ones. You end up with a noticeable lack of contrast, and just moving your feet a few steps in one direction or another results in the light is now hitting your sights in a totally different way. So you think your sight picture is clean, but with a catch-light on one side you may be holding left or right or high...whatever...and not knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Hmmm, Elliott you may have something there. That sounds pretty close to what I think is happening. It isn't the noise b/c it generally doesn't bother me when shooting in a stall. It is increased from outdoors for sure but it isn't something I find uncomfortable in a normal shooting session either indoors or out. I usually double plug in all instances anyway for safety and b/c I feel it gives me a slight edge in competition. The lighting when shooting out of a stall is pretty consistent and not too bad. My shooting there is right on. I only seem to have a problem when I am out front on the floor and shooting under the roof lights. Most of these are shot out and the lighting is very inconsistent. The range owner can't keep enough flouro's from getting shot and he won't turn on the other lights he has ever. It is a shame b/c the range used to be very well lit years ago. The walls were a bright white and all the lights were always on. Back then we shot pins there and I never had a problem but my eyes were also 19 years old then 15+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Maybe try swapping to a front and rear fiber optic sight setup? That way it will be easier to see if your sight alignment is off by looking at the FO instead of the edges of the sights. But really though, if you have to align the sights that much while shooting fairly close targets doesn't that sound more like an inconsistent grip or natural point of aim issue? Technically every time you bring the gun up in front of your face your sights should be 90% - 95% aligned for targets out to 15 yards. For further stuff, sure some refinement of the sight alignment is needed. But overall your natural point of aim and grip should produce a fairly good sight alignment every time you bring the gun up to shoot. If you bring the gun up and the sights are all over the place forcing you to realign them then you need to work on your NPA and Grip to make it consistent. I know that for myself, my NPA and Grip are consistent enough that I can point shoot out to 10 yards and still yield good hits. I will look at the targets when shooting this way and once I can see the gun in my peripheral vision on the target I break the shot. Further than that and I switch to looking at the front sight to confirm my sight alignment before breaking the shot. Edited April 13, 2009 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I would agree if not for the fact that in all other instances I am getting good hits. From the bays indoors and on the line outdoors I don't seem to have any problem. It is only up front. I am not lining up 100% on these shots either. I am taking a pretty quck flash sight picture and squeezing my shot off. No different than I do outside except my hits there are good/better and my hits inside are off. For the most part I am talking about being down 1-3 on an IDPA target when I really feel most of my hits should have been down zero or at most a few hits in the down 1 zone. I can do it all day outside and rarely miss but once I am indoors I just don't get the same result. It just doesn't seem right to me that I am taking what seems like my usual sight picture and making poor hits. Maybe next time I will try with front and rear FO's and see if that causes me to line up a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 You can probably isolate it if you take recoil and noise out of the equation. Try this: Next time you practice at that range, try moving around with the gun held in front of you as you would when shooting (but do this as dry-fire) and just watch how the light hitting your front sight continuously changes. You'll probably see glints on the sides and top edges at different times as you move that you weren't aware of before because of the distraction of the gun firing. In other cases the sight may also either be in near total darkness or back-lit if the targets are illuminated. Any way you slice it; reading iron sights quickly is all about contrast, and there usually isn't much of that indoors. Your range sounds tougher than most.... I fiber optic may help a little, or it may not. It didn't really help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The lighting at most indoor ranges suck for action shooting with iron sights. I usually shoot an "open" gun indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Aside from the added noise and blast, I've found that indoor light is a really bugger to be consistent with. Typically, there is not one single light source, but several overlapping ones. You end up with a noticeable lack of contrast, and just moving your feet a few steps in one direction or another results in the light is now hitting your sights in a totally different way. So you think your sight picture is clean, but with a catch-light on one side you may be holding left or right or high...whatever...and not knowing. That gets my vote. Indoor lighting is horrible at best. And even if the sight picture looks good, the lighting contrast between the sights and the target make calling the shot even more difficult than it normally is. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I have read that to have the best depth of field, you need ambient light strength just short of squinting. Your pupils are at their smallest at that point. Sort of like doing F16 instead of F4.5 on your camera. It has been my experience that it is way slow to get a reasonable sight pic with irons and the dot is not all that much better. I tend to get flinchy indoors also Later, Chuck PS: But, it is fun to blow insulation off the ceiling with the comp blast though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Aside from the added noise and blast, I've found that indoor light is a really bugger to be consistent with. Typically, there is not one single light source, but several overlapping ones. You end up with a noticeable lack of contrast, and just moving your feet a few steps in one direction or another results in the light is now hitting your sights in a totally different way. So you think your sight picture is clean, but with a catch-light on one side you may be holding left or right or high...whatever...and not knowing. That gets my vote. Indoor lighting is horrible at best. And even if the sight picture looks good, the lighting contrast between the sights and the target make calling the shot even more difficult than it normally is. be Not just to agree with the master, but I'd say that's a huge part of it. I'd also think that because of the different lighting it might be making you unconsciously change your normal front sight focus to the target, back to the front sight, to the rear sight....all over the place as the light hits different parts at different times. Indoor lighting just bites at most ranges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Not just to agree with the master, but I'd say that's a huge part of it.I'd also think that because of the different lighting it might be making you unconsciously change your normal front sight focus to the target, back to the front sight, to the rear sight....all over the place as the light hits different parts at different times. Indoor lighting just bites at most ranges.... Yup, it's nasty. With the combination of middle aged eyes and freezing cold winter temperatures 6 months of the year here, I finally had to admit I had explored all of my options with no satisfactory result, and would just have to go back to Open Division if I wanted to have any fun. It just got too frustrating shooting iron sights indoors, and it was starting to reinforce bad habits. Mind you; even dot scopes have their challenges with indoor lighting, but they are definitely better. Having way more fun now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I have a hard time shooting indoor ranges also, it's the lighting for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidgun Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 My issue with difference indoor and outdoor usually revolves around the lighting. I shoot better indoor at places that are well lit. But when I have visited darker locations I noticed that I really had to get used to the lighting condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmanfixit Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Perhaps another suggestion. A good question to start would be, do you wear prescription eyeglasses? Do you find your night vision to be sharp ordinarily? I agree that lighting is a major contributor in this described situation. Consider aperture effect. As your pupil opens up to allow more light in compensation for the illumination level, you are using more of the surface of your lenses, Cornea and crystalline lens. Often this will reveal a 1st division error in your vision. (Low power) That you really don't notice in brighter lighting conditions. This has an effect on visual tasking that is surprisingly deteriorative! Be sure to check the optics of your eye protection. There can easily be aberrations that have an exaggerated effects in low light. It's possible that you might be able to get an Optometrist (best choice actually) to make up a pair of shooting glasses for low light situations. If you explain to him (or her) your situation, a correction can be made that in normal light might be a little too strong (over correction) but would make your vision sharper for low light! It is likely to improve your sight picture and thus your aim. I'm near 60 and I have found fiber optic sights to be a helpful addition to one of my guns that I also use for CCW. Hope this is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Eliminate potential candidates right away. Go to the indoor with a friend and have them load your mags with some dmmy rounds in there. This way you can see for yourself if your 3 friends hitched a ride to the range with you. (Buck, Jerk, and Flinch) If its not that then the eyesight/lighting thing might be the issue. Since the eyesight/lighting issue is longer to correct try the dummy round test and see if its that because its Much easier to cure that than the time it takes to get new glasses or convince the range to upgrade their lights. Good luck. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The lighting definitely afffects me. I find I tend to close my non dominant eye to get acceptable sight pictures... and even then it's a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now