Ron Ankeny Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I bought a CZ 75B a week ago. I removed the magazine brake and put a reverse bend in it to get the mags to drop free. Every once in a while (as in way too often) the next round up in the magazine will move forward under recoil and hit the feed ramp. Of course, when I hit the mag release the magazine doesn't even budge. WTF? I have only shot the cheap Wal Mart ammo, Winchester 115 grainers in the bulk pack and Blazer 115 grainers. Any one been there and done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 ron, check the disc. rail. It may have rough tool marks on it & is moveing the next rd. up foward. polish it & see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Thanks Benny. Why can't all of my pistols run flawlessly like the ones you built for me? I should have taken your advice and bought a Glock for production, but a CZ just points so much better for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bompa Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 it is also possible that the mag spring is on the weak side,CZ's springs are not of the same quality as the rest of the gun.. A quick test,not a fix, is to strech the mag spring and see if that has any effect at all.. I have found that the factory uses the same spring in the 15rd mags as in the 10rd jobs.. Recoil spring might be on the light side also..Wolf springs can help you .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Ron, Ron, Ron, Ron, I wish you had posted this before you bought the 75. In the spring of '02 I bought a CZ-75 DB (decocker model). I got it for all the reasons you did. The heavy all steel gun shot softer than any other 9mm I ever shot. The small, light weight slide, relativly cheap pre-ban hi-caps, excellent ergonomics, excellent accuracy, reliability, and wonderful triggers if you catch the right gunsmith. 6 months and about another $500 later, I sold it. I had the exact same problem you did. The next round would slide forward in the magazine and the nose would drag against the inside of the frame. It didn't do it every time, but enough that it would stick on every other stage. It happened with 10 & 15 rounders, regardless of manufacture. I put in Wolff +10% magazine springs, nothing. I polished the railway under the slide, nothing. I tried different followers, nope. I tried bending the feed lips to pinch the round, nada. I contacted the factory, they said as long as it doesn't jam, there's nothing wrong. I finally gave up. The only other resource I would check with eric grauffel. Try going to his website and see if you can email him your problem or find a topic about this on his forum. If there's a reliable fix to this problem, I might get back into another 75 with you. Sorry for the bad news, at least in my experience. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 I think I am gonna cry... I just got off of the phone with Mike at CZ. Apparantly this is a known issue with some pistols (not all) and there is no fix. The guys at the shop have tried different magazines, heavier springs, polishing parts, yadda, yadda yadda, to no avail. There is absolutely no fix and the pistol is freaking worthless for IPSC competition. I'd like to shove it up someone's.... To make matters worse, even if I want to sell it and take a hose job, how do I peddle it in good concious knowing the thing is worthless? I called CZ again. They tell me the problem I described is not considered a malfunction. I am screwed. The first time I called they told me this was a known issue, the second time they told me they have never heard of it happening in a 9 mm. Strange bunch of folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRNinTX Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 No matter how ugly they are or how much people trash talk about them, there is something to be said about a Glock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 TRNinVA Yes there will always be some conversation about a trigger that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Don't even go there. I narrowed it down to the CZ or a G17 that our club president (owns a sporting goods store) has for sale. I exercised my inferior decision making skills and well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Well Ron Are you dumping the CZ or attempting to find a fix? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Ron, If you need to use the CZ for the special classifer... Could you down load the mags? If you are shooting alphas anyway... An eight round array, load 9 (one in the pipe for the reload). That would leave the mag empty to drop free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Flex: You got it, I will load just what I need to get the job done for our special classifier. Most of it is Virginia count anyway. Tightloop: Mike at CZ asked the same question because they have never found a fix. I guess they want one of the screwed customers to find a fix then tell them about it. I haven't decided yet, but chances are I'll look for a fix for a few weeks and if I can't find one I'll dump the CZ. I asked the folks at CZ if they have dealt much with the competitive shooting community and they indicated that they had not. I suppose that's why they figure a partially loaded mag getting hung up is not an issue with them. I also told them that rule number one for a competion shooter is, "the gun must work". That concept seemed to escape them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I called CZ again. They tell me the problem I described is not considered a malfunction. Then what the f^&* do they call it? A "feature?" I would love to hear the explanation of how jamming is part of the pistol's normal operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 The quick cure is to put two small detent dents at the rear of the magazine where the rim rebate sits. Use a 10 rounder for the first test to see how deep you have to go and still maintain reliability. This has worked for me on several cz type pistols as well as a lahti and mab 9mm. Note these dents are below the top of the mag as it is the round under the round feeding that has the problem. KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Ron, There is a czforum.com site you might try for some advice or solace. If you find something that solves your problem let us know. I like these guns too, but I'm holding back now. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 This is weird. I went over to Sam's stomping grounds for a little IDPA and informal steel shooting. We discovered that the round won't move far enough forward to get caught up if we shoot one shot at a time. OTOH, if we (Sam and I replicate the problem on demand) shoot a pair with a fairly quick split with 7-4 rounds left in the mag it will hang up every time. For now, a possible work around is to load shorter than standard ammo so even when the round moves forward it won't hang up. Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 The CZ and TZ design does everything beautifully, except for having the top two rounds in the mag feed upwards, and strip off the feedlips and into the chamber. If this sounds like a very big "except" - it is. Sorry, that's the facts. If you really want to give the gun a second (3rd, 4th, 5th??) chance, then you can experiment with really heavy mag springs, really heavy recoil spring, and a really firm grip - in every shooting position. Easier said than done. Mine sits in a box at the back of my safe. Good luck. dvc - eric - a28026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 Eric: I didn't want to mention it, but the gun puked today shooting around a low barricade. I had a poor grip and the pistol was canted way to the side. Just what I need, one more little issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 3 matches & about 1000 rounds - so far so good w/ a borrowed CZ-75B. Not a single hang up as described. Factory hi-caps. Might be my ammo. I am using 147 grn Star FMJs & Zero JHPs loaded to 1.155 to 1.160 (loaded long for a 9mm on account of my use of a powder which Vihta Vouri does not approve of). I do not doubt this problem exists however. Erik is an accomplished Production shooter & has been know to win local matches using a production gun - as in beating the entire Open and Limited divisions for the overall win using a production gun. If he says it happens, then it happens. However, I believe he shoots exclusively factory 115 grn ammo. Ammo could be part of the problem. Erik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Carlos, You might just have a "lemon". I tried all different types of ammo and couldn't get the problem to go away. I've pretty much given up on a solution and moved on. I'm starting to really like the long slides for production. (Glock 34/35 and the long slide Springfield XD's.) Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 kurtm is correct also the front edge of the lips need to be narrower than at the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Erik wrote: "I tried all different types of ammo and couldn't get the problem to go away" So much for my theory. I have not played around w/ different types of ammo much in the CZ75 I have been shooting in local matches (Tino's, BJ's & our Shooters Paradise match). Just 147s at 1.160". The gun I am using was loaned to me by a friend & I like it so much that I went a little CZ-crazy buying a .45 ACP CZ-97, a CZ40 (the one that CZ built for Colt w. the 1911 grip angle - at $250 I could not pass it up), a .40 cal baby desert eagle - a rare one that has the safety where God & John Browning intended it to be - on the FRAME! and finally a really old copy of the early CZ-75 called an AT84S & made in Solothurn, Switzerland- apparently to get around the difficulty of importing CZs from a then-communist country. It was sold by action arms way back when. So far, so good though I nearly got "blowed up" by trying to use some long .45ACP reloads in the 97; turns out that Montana Gold 200 grn flat points (JSPs) loaded to 1.250 will jam right into the rifleing of a CZ97 and luckily prevent the gun from going into battery while locking it up solid. Funny, these loads worked fine in my old STI Edge & SW 625 (seems I have more guns than sense). I also monitor the CZ forum.com and the CZ group on pistolsmith.com; if a fix is suggested I'll try to post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 There is a fix for your problem. The disconnector rail (or what would be the disconnector rail in a 1911), the one that rides over the cartridge in the magazine, needs to be undercut. Leave the leading edge at the factory depth, then undercut it (raising it away from the cartridge) starting about .200" behind the leading edge. Don't take too much, just enough to cure the problem. I can't give you an exact figure, its been too long since I did one. You should probably take about 10-15 thousandths off, try it, and if you need more, keep removing material until you get it where it needs to be. Taper the area between the factory depth, and the new depth. To get a visual picture of what I talking about, go to your local gun store and look at the bottom of the slide of a new Glock 21 and you will see what I mean. The large frame Glocks had the same problem when they first came out. Do NOT take as much as the Glock has removed. Remember, take a little bit at a time. It is easier to take more, then put some back................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Bob: I think you are on to a great cure. I'd give my left testicle for a milling machine or surface grinder about now. I wonder how Primative Pete would go about the project with cave man tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esa1195 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 now, a possible work around is to load shorter than standard ammo so even when the round moves forward it won't hang up. I think reloads with SWC / FP bullets cause less forward movement than (hotter?) factory FMJ ammo. One other fix you might try: When round moves forward, first thing it snags when dropping a mag is the slide stop. If you cut a part of slide stop off there is little more space for first round. Check it out with full mag and slide stop installed frame without slide. After modification slide won't lock back after last round. (Picture is CZ75ST IPSC SSs but same idea in 9mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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