Need help choosing a budget optic.

[JDBraddy]

I know this has probably been discussed ad-nausium, but I've starting to shoot 3-gun at local club matches, and am using a 16" AR Carbine with an A2 style handle. I've been using iron sights, but bought a cheep Barska electro sight just to see if I'd even like using an optic and I do, but the damn thing won't hold a zero more than a couple of stages. I have about a $200-$250 budget and can't aford a $600+ optic like Aim-Point, Trijicon, or Meopta. All the cheap red-dots ranging in price from $50-$200 appear to be the same three or four imports that have been rebranded with whatever company's logo, I can't tell them apart, and they tend to have have too narrow fields of view. So I need some help selecting a quality budget optic for my AR. Are any of them of better quality, or are they all about the same in this price range? I've even started looking at scopes like the Weaver V-3 and the Millet 1-4X24. I'v mounted one of my larger scopes, a Weaver V-16, but of course it's too much power, and too narrow FOV. All the targets at local club matches so farr, have been under 50yds, and high round count hoser stages because of range constraints, so true 1X and broad FOV are the most desired fetures. Honestly, I could shoot these stages faster and more accurately with my open gun than I can with the carbine, but I've come to play so would appreciate any advice I can get with picking a good budget optic for my carbine.

[DeweyH]

My advice is to continue shooting the irons. Save the money until you get enough to change your equipment some, because you may want to change to a flat top upper as well. You may also find that you like shooting iron sights and don't want or need to change anything. When I first started with the rifle I had an A2 and I tried putting scopes and dots on the carry handle and it didn't work real well for me. What I found out was that you can learn to shoot well with the irons. You can also be very competitive with irons even against dots and scopes as long as the ranges are within your visual ability. I still like to shoot irons, even though I have a scope now.

There is alot of info about this topic already out there and I'm sure some of the guys at the matches will let you try their stuff as well.

[ac4wordplay]

+1 on DeweyH's advice.

Putting an optic on an A2 handle is likely to be a big disappointment; wait until you have a flat-top before considering an optic. I attend a monthly 3-gun style (pistol, shotgun, pistol-caliber carbine) match with targets at distances under 50 yards - for this I use a PCC AR with A2 sights. Although I use a low-magnification optic on my rifle-caliber AR when I compete in "real" (rifle-caliber) 3-gun matches, I find that I'm still competitive (even against good shooters with optics) when using the PCC with iron sights (with the target distance/size encountered in this match). My eyes are aging, but still function sufficiently for the moment - depending on your eyes you may, or may not, need to consider an optic. A fiber optic A2 front sight is a worthwhile and inexpensive upgrade.

A high-dollar optic isn't justified for your stated distances (under 50 yards) and the following optics should be fine. My thoughts on inexpensive optics (I'm on a tight budget myself) for engagements from point-blank out to ~400 yards:

Bushnell 1.5-4.5x32 (~$200 new, street price). I've successfully used this scope for over 12 Practical Rifle matches, USPSA mulitgun Area 1, and USPSA mulitgun Nationals. Good magnification range, magnification adjustment, and optical clarity. The reticle is a bit thick for precise aiming at longer distances (but is very good for close & quick engagements).

Burris FullField II 1.75-5x20. No longer in production but can be found new (old stock), or gently used, in the $125-$175 range. I've successfully (and happily) used this scope for over 12 PR matches, and a USPSA multigun Area 1. Good magnification range, mediocre magnification adjustment, and good optical clarity.

Weaver V III 1-3x20 (~$150 new, street price). I haven't used one at a match and don't own one, but I've examined them. Acceptable magnification range (excellent low end, and acceptable high end), good magnification adjustment, and good optical clarity.

I expect that there are other good options, too.

I hope some of this helps.

ac

[BigDave]

Weaver 1-3x or a Leupold VX-II 1-4 would fit the bill and not break the bank in the process.

[THM7]

With that setup I would look at KNS front posts...they have all kinds. Even out to 100 yrds I would think the irons are the way to go. Bushnell make the Holosight...which would fit your needs but it sure would look funky on a A2 carry handle, Burris Fast fire holds might also work. I have a Colt SP-1 that I mounted a scope on (carry handle) shot it once and took it off.

[mpeltier]

I also would recomend sticking with Irons until you can afford a flat top reciever and quality glass.

Site-link makes a very nice fiberoptic front sight post in varying widths that work incredibly well. I can consistantly hit steel out to 225yds (our ranges max) and probably farther. At 100 and closer it would probably be as fast as any dot sight.

[jbullgpd]

sorry had to do it, yeah optics on an A2 handle is a waste. Shoot irons, learning to shoot irons will help your game anyway. Save up for that new upper or find a stripped one and make it your new project as you get the funds. Then if you get an optic you can put it on that. Good luck, Iron sight shooters rule!!!!!!!!!!!

[TomMcC]

sorry had to do it, yeah optics on an A2 handle is a waste. Shoot irons, learning to shoot irons will help your game anyway. Save up for that new upper or find a stripped one and make it your new project as you get the funds. Then if you get an optic you can put it on that. Good luck, Iron sight shooters rule!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a Weaver 1-3 on a flattop carbine that works, although like some have said it's a little short on the top end. If your not shooting past about 250yds at anything too small it might work for you. I have a Nikon 1-4 x 20 on order, it's brand new, I'm going to put it on a 20" flattop. It's about $275.

As for the scope going on the carry handle, it will probably work ok at close range, 50-60 yds, but anything long range is going to get tougher without a good cheek weld.

[jobob]

Actually, I think a good cheek weld is even more important on close, fast shooting. If you're always struggling to align your eye with the scope it will slow you down. Plus, the offset distance between the bore and scope centerline with a carry handle mount must be in the area of 4 inches or more. That will make holdover estimation difficult on close targets.

The best setup for a carry handle gun, IMHO, is to mount a red dot or reflex sight on one of those dogleg mounts that attach to the carry handle, and mount the optic in front of the handle just above the forend. You can usually see your iron sights through the optic. No magnification, but for targets out to 100 yds or so it should work well.

[SingleStacker45]

Bravo Company Upper

Millett Base

Weaver VX3

Weaver Rings

Assemble the above for about $350 and you will have a very good setup for three gun. A bit over budget but not bad IMHO.

Mule

[Doublehaul]

An Armson OEG (the predecessor to the current illuminated reticle optics) will work. Need both eyes open. goes right on the carry handle and they can be found for around $125. They are old technology but rugged, reliable and easy to use... just have to remember to keep both eyes open or it don't work.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Doublehaul

[Carlos]

Bravo Company Upper

Millett Base

Weaver VX3

Weaver Rings

Assemble the above for about $350 and you will have a very good setup for three gun. A bit over budget but not bad IMHO.

Mule

Actually, that Weaver you linked just went on sale f0r 140 bucks. I have one and its a great scope. Pair it with the Armalite brand once piece mount and you are off to the matches.