Opie Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I am loading the following round on a Dillon 650. 230gr Montana Gold CMJ 4.3 gr Titegroup 1.255 OAL Federal 45+P once fired nickel brass When I measure the rounds most of them come fairly close to 1.255 but I occasionally get some as long as 1.26 and as short as 1.24. Is this a concern? I am fairly new to reloading so not sure if this much difference in OAL would matter or not. Maybe it is normal for a 650 to have that much difference in OAL? I used a sharpie and drew a line down my dies to make sure they were not moving. They were all tight when I checked them and no movement. Thanks! Edited March 17, 2009 by Opie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911jerry Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You might want to check your shell plate for excessive up and down play. You may need to tighten it down a smidge. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Not familier with CMJ, but if it has a rounded profile this is expected. The seater is touching past the tip most likely, and any variation past this point tworad the end will show on the final COL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Opie, I don't think you need to be concerned with a +/-.001 deviation in length. It could be occasional spilled powder beneath your seating die station or the shell plate movement you can get when you have to pull a round out of line because the primer didn't feed or brass didn't drop into the decapping/sizing station. My .38 Super rounds run from 1.235 to 1.239 with most of them running around 1.237 and I don't have any problems with them at all. Just my 2 cents. Your quality control may be stricter than mine. fwiw dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Make sure the plate is down low enough to just be able to move freely and that its not picking up on the brass. Also make sure your seating die is tight. Make sure you don't have high primers. Make sure you set up your shell plate with brass in all 5 positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 OK, I will tighten the plate some. I updated my original post. The OALs I am seeing are between 1.24 and 1.26 when set at 1.255. Thanks for the tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertbank Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 OK, I will tighten the plate some. I updated my original post.The OALs I am seeing are between 1.24 and 1.26 when set at 1.255. Thanks for the tips. Thousandths of an inch is nothing to worry about. Your gun will never know the difference. Take Care Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 When I first began loading I was concerned about the same thing. So I checked some factory ammo and found there was about the same differences round to round as what I was doing with my 650. Nothing to worry about. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 OK, I will tighten the plate some. I updated my original post.The OALs I am seeing are between 1.24 and 1.26 when set at 1.255. Thanks for the tips. Thousandths of an inch is nothing to worry about. Your gun will never know the difference. Take Care Bob Does not matter how much you tighten the shell plate. There will always be some minor OAL variation. Your variation is not a problem unless your longest OAL causes malfunctions. If that happens, adjust median OAL a touch shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yeah, when I load, my tolerance is within .005, and it's good. Good point in ensuring that your longest and shortest loads will load properly. I would load 5 at your longest deviation, and 5 at your shortest and make sure those run. Set to your median and not worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRak2000 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Bullets vary in length a certain amount, and mostly due to variations of the nose. For good consistent pressures and velocities, it's common practice to seat the bullet using pressure around the ogive of the bullet...not on the tip. The curve of the ogive is more consistent relative to the base of the bullet, so if you seat using the ogive, the base will be pushed down into the case to a more uniform distance. Naturally you will see a little variation in OAL (when referencing to the tip). You can make a little ring fitting on your calipers that will allow you to measure your OAL accurately (minus the distance to the tip from the rings measuring point on the ogive. I hope this made sense... maybe someone else has a comment about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneracin Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have found that a VERY quick blast of hornaday 1 shot into the bin of bullets before reloading gives me much more consistent results. I have a bin that I start with about 200 bullets in, and i give about a half a second blast of 1 shot into the bin, and then shake it to disperse the lube to them all. Made my oal variation go from +- .005 or more to +- .002 or less. If you pressfit anything dry, with no lube, it will never press in smooth, it will instead "jump" as it drags. add lube, and it smooths right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Does the Dillon seating die on a Square Deal press seat from the tip, or from the ogive of the bullet? I'm loading Zero JHP bullets. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Why do my loads have inconsistant OAL? A better question would be "Does it matter?" The answer is "No." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Does the Dillon seating die on a Square Deal press seat from the tip, or from the ogive of the bullet?I'm loading Zero JHP bullets. Jeff It depends. You should have two seating stems with different shapes. One is more likely to contact the tip, the other the ogive, but the only way to tell is to take the seating stem out and put a bullet in it and see where they make contact. None of this matters if the OAL variation is as small as the original poster mentioned. Measuring bullets from the case head to bullet tip isn't the proper way to do it....it takes a bullet comparator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Make sure the seating die is clean inside, Dirt will make for inconsistent OAL as will a burr or miss fit. If precesion is the objective and a box full of 45's it's generaly not, you can fit the seating die stem to suit your bullet. Lap the stem by turning a bullet in a lathe or drill press charged with valve grinding compound, it takes no time to get a nice fit. I look at the stem on seating dies and if I don't like the shape even if it's intended for production runs of pistol cartridges will lap it out. It just makes for a nicer job. Boats Edited March 23, 2009 by Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStacker45 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Why do my loads have inconsistant OAL? A better question would be "Does it matter?" The answer is "No." More like it does not matter much. It does cause varying pressure i.e. varrying velocity which will grow your group size. Probably the deviation is small if you are using a good seating die and good quality bullets. I would experiment with different bullets and or seating die setups until you get the closest deviation then run with it. If you can shoot four inch groups freestyle at 25 yards consistantly and your gun runs then you are good to go. Mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You might want to take that sharpie paint the bullets nose black and see what is happing when it's in the seating die. It will leave witness marks on your bullet. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 More like it does not matter much. It does cause varying pressure i.e. varrying velocity which will grow your group size. Will it? Do you know that for a fact? Have you tested it? I have. Years ago, while using the dial caliper on loaded rounds, I noticed the sort of fluctuation that's being discussed in this thread. I'm sure I still have the data around somewhere, but staring back into memory it was at least .0010 to either side of the desired OAL. So I measured every single round I had loaded, then sorted them by OAL out to .0001", then fired them all over a chrono, keeping careful note of average velocity, SD, extreme spread, etc. Know how much difference I found? None. At the levels we're discussing here, any variance in velocity is going to fall into the "undetectible if even existent" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I spend a lot of time with OAL and bullet engagement on my target Rifles. I don't think it makes a big difference with Revolvers or Automatic pistols. Close is good enough. On the other hand Crimp is important and it can be a factor in OAL. Inconsistent will make the bullet pull different cartridge to cartridge. More so with Revolvers and roll crimps. No sense in sloppy but don't worry too much about it. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thank you Duane, for doing that so I need not. It confirms my suspicions without the grunt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yer welcome. No charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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