D. Manley Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Stumbled across an interesting find of a HORNADY BURN RATE CHART yesterday. I didn't pay much attention to it until I printed out a copy today. First thing that caught my eye was the much lower burn rate position of S-1000 than every previous chart I'd seen. I spot several powders that are traditionally shown slower than Solo to be shown faster on the Hornady chart...Red Dot, Titegroup, AA #2, American Select, IMR 700X for a few. Horandy shows Solo-1000 and N-320 directly adjacent to each other. Hmmm......think maybe this could help explain why Accurate's load data doesn't seem to jibe with shooting results?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The powders you listed all have nearly identical burn rates. Or burn rates so close that they'll flip flop order based on the pressure. All burn rate charts I have seen are wrong. Look at it like scoreing shooters. Lets say 5 shooters tie but you put them on a list order of finish 1,2,3,4,5. A casual observer would think shooter 1 beat the pants off shooter 5. The proper way to do a burn rate chart would be to put several powders on the same line. So that's how you end up with chart A showing W231 is faster than HP38 and Chart B the opposite. When most if us know they are the exact same powder. Actually the chart is just listing them arbitrarily in different orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaystryin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I dont believe the chart. I have talked with a Hodgdon rep who told me Clays is without a doubt faster than Bullseye. The Hornady chart shows the Clays much slower than Bullseye. Stumbled across an interesting find of a HORNADY BURN RATE CHART Horandy shows Solo-1000 and N-320 directly adjacent to each other. Hmmm......think maybe this could help explain why Accurate's load data doesn't seem to jibe with shooting results?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Agree with Joe, Charts are indicators only. Actual burn rate will vary according to how the powder is loaded. Some respond to bullet weight, crimp, loading density and case neck pull more than others. and then there is temperature which affects different powders different ways. I have also seen differences in lots of powder of the same brand and name. While no doubt they can be tested under the exact same condition when they get to "real world" loading conditions things are not exactly the same anymore. I can see a couple on that chart I have used and would flip flop the rates in my loadings slightly. The key word on the charts header is APPROXIMATIONS Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Based solely on perceived recoil while shooting the gun, Solo 1000 FEELS like a faster powder than Titegroup. I really like the way it shoots, and if the world's supply of TG dried up, I'd probably switch completely to Solo without crying a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 No secret that I am a Solo 1000 fan. But honestly, I think the charts which list Solo 1000 as fast as, or close to N310, are wrong. Solo is a single-base powder like the Vihta Vouri powders. It is safe for use in loading .40 S&W to 165+ Major at SHORT OALs (i.e. - 1.150 or 9mm lengths). See factory data for proof. I believe it should be listed as burn-rate equivalent to either N-320 or N-318. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 This chart is amongst one of the best to show comparitive burn rate between manufacturers. I'll agree burn rate is only an approximate. Vhitavouri Burn Rate Chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 This chart is amongst one of the best to show comparitive burn rate between manufacturers. I'll agree burn rate is only an approximate.Vhitavouri Burn Rate Chart Interesting, no Titegroup on that chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Looks like Clays, TG and Solo are positioned about right with respect to each other. I am way too cheap to use the VV powders. Here's another. http://www.lasc.us/BurnRatePrint.htm Edited February 23, 2009 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You wrote: "Clays, TG and Solo are positioned about right with respect to each other." Probably they are close in burn rate. BUT, Solo is the OPPOSITE of Titegroup in one respect: -Nitro gliserin (sp) content. -Titegroup has the HIGHEST amount of Nitro gliserin (sp) of any of the pistol powders; it is about 37% according to the Blue Press article. I believe that the high nitro content makes it burn really hot and can cause it to pressure spike if its pushed too far (double charges tend to be spectacular). -Solo has ZERO nitro. Why? Because it is "single base" and by definition ALL single base powders are 100% free of Nitro. All of the Vihta Vouri powders are single base powders. (NOTE: spelling error intentional. I don't want to waste anyone's time if they are using an algorythm set to catch certain words. We are only talking about propellants for our sporting purposes here, folks. Move along.). Looks like Clays, TG and Solo are positioned about right with respect to each other. I am way too cheap to use the VV powders.Here's another. http://www.lasc.us/BurnRatePrint.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 What does the percentage of nitroglycerin have to do with the burn rate discussion? I would think by now most folks know Solo 1000 is a gun cotton based powder. TG is fine for plated or jacketed bullets. Not good for lead or moly - BTDT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 What does the percentage of nitroglycerin have to do with the burn rate discussion? No argument here. Its simply to point out the following: similar burn rate does NOT eqaul "interchangeable" nor identical. I would not want anyone in the VAST expanse of be.com to get the wrong impression. Also, you wrote: "I would think by now most folks know Solo 1000 is a gun cotton based powder." One would hope. I am not convinced everyone knows or understands - yet. Regards, d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 What does the percentage of nitroglycerin have to do with the burn rate discussion? I would think by now most folks know Solo 1000 is a gun cotton based powder. TG is fine for plated or jacketed bullets. Not good for lead or moly - BTDT. What is gun cotton based powder and why should I care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Duh!!! Because we all pick cotton here in the South for a living. That's how we get our gun money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Manley Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Duh!!! Because we all pick cotton here in the South for a living. That's how we get our gun money. And there ain't nearly as much of that either as there used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpowe Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 "Gun Cotton" is nitrocelluose which is very similar to nitroglycerin in both manufacture and properties. Except it is a solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 What does the percentage of nitroglycerin have to do with the burn rate discussion? I would think by now most folks know Solo 1000 is a gun cotton based powder. TG is fine for plated or jacketed bullets. Not good for lead or moly - BTDT. What is gun cotton based powder and why should I care? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67ls7vert Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Very good information, Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I think it's best to chrono the powders you have on your shelf and know where they're at. My 230 grain loads with Clays make major at 3.5. Same bullet/same COAL and S1000 and I need ~4.3ish. They feel the same to me so I am just using S1000 for everything now, but if I sought to compare them, I'd compare the jugs that I actually have on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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