SLM Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Try a different powder. +1 TG and 147's didn't play well together in my CZ. Went to Solo 1000 at the same velocity/pf (~128) with zero tumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I was having accuracy issues with 147gr Zeros and TiteGroup in my M&P Pro too... I picked up a Storm Lake barrel, and the faster twist rate (1:16 vs 1:18.75 in stock S&W barrel) definitely stabilized the heavy/slower moving bullets much better. Accuracy is vastly improved, and the velocity is significantly higher (~ 50 fps) for a given load too. In my case, the SL barrel was a huge improvement all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I was having accuracy issues with 147gr Zeros and TiteGroup in my M&P Pro too... I picked up a Storm Lake barrel, and the faster twist rate (1:16 vs 1:18.75 in stock S&W barrel) definitely stabilized the heavy/slower moving bullets much better. Accuracy is vastly improved, and the velocity is significantly higher (~ 50 fps) for a given load too. In my case, the SL barrel was a huge improvement all around. interesting... I think KKM and Barsto should have theirs out soon, I hope anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostold Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 thanks for the info on the storm lake - good to know that you are happy with it. I have been talking with KKM since last fall - last word i got is that they will be available in April. I have not talked with Barsto but will give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Olhasso Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 When I first started using the M&P 5" guns, I had a similar problem with 147gr bullets. After experimenting with several different heads I found that the problem was my rounds were being loaded too short. Once I lengthened my loads, my groups tightened up. For most 147gr heads, I found that I need to load 1.12 to 1.135 to get the best accuracy in the M&P 5" guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 When I first started using the M&P 5" guns, I had a similar problem with 147gr bullets. After experimenting with several different heads I found that the problem was my rounds were being loaded too short. Once I lengthened my loads, my groups tightened up. For most 147gr heads, I found that I need to load 1.12 to 1.135 to get the best accuracy in the M&P 5" guns. at what velocity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Olhasso Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 130 to 133 power factor with VV N320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 130 to 133 power factor with VV N320 that makes sense, maybe you found the right pressure curve with N320 and 147gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xfactor Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 When I first started using the M&P 5" guns, I had a similar problem with 147gr bullets. After experimenting with several different heads I found that the problem was my rounds were being loaded too short. Once I lengthened my loads, my groups tightened up. For most 147gr heads, I found that I need to load 1.12 to 1.135 to get the best accuracy in the M&P 5" guns. Good point on the OAL... I load mine to 1.130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 just tested some moly 147 and some WIN 147 bullets..loaded out at 1.140 and seemed very accurate at 10-15 yards.. need to load some more and check velocities, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sandro - are you shooting the 147s with a boat tail on them? Most jacketed 147s have that shape in back to avoid bulging the brass right at the point where it starts to get much thicker. I always wondered what that would do to accuracy compared to a 135 or a 125. Does anyone sell inexpensive jacketed 135s or did that die with CP Bullets about a decade ago? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Sandro - are you shooting the 147s with a boat tail on them? Most jacketed 147s have that shape in back to avoid bulging the brass right at the point where it starts to get much thicker. I always wondered what that would do to accuracy compared to a 135 or a 125. Does anyone sell inexpensive jacketed 135s or did that die with CP Bullets about a decade ago? Just curious. Eric, I talked to Dave S. at the shoot show and he said 147gr at 950fps was the trick. He said the 135gr were also very accurate, but because he shoots Atlanta Arms he was happy with their 147gr load. I think I have been spoiled by the 1911/2011 guns, the accuracy on those guns are far superior than a high "production" gun. However, I think I am missing something with the the 147gr load I am using currently…I have to play with the latest suggestions I got from other folks here, OAL etc. I am shooting N320 and Zero 147gr at 1.120OAL. I will change the OAL and bump the powder to get to 133PF, lets see if that helps… I will post an update next week if I can. Regards, Sandro Edited February 26, 2009 by Sandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostold Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 When I first started using the M&P 5" guns, I had a similar problem with 147gr bullets. After experimenting with several different heads I found that the problem was my rounds were being loaded too short. Once I lengthened my loads, my groups tightened up. For most 147gr heads, I found that I need to load 1.12 to 1.135 to get the best accuracy in the M&P 5" guns. Thanks for the input Dave - if it ever warms up I will get out and get some loads worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I was having accuracy issues with 147gr Zeros and TiteGroup in my M&P Pro too... I picked up a Storm Lake barrel, and the faster twist rate (1:16 vs 1:18.75 in stock S&W barrel) definitely stabilized the heavy/slower moving bullets much better. Accuracy is vastly improved, and the velocity is significantly higher (~ 50 fps) for a given load too. In my case, the SL barrel was a huge improvement all around. Imagine that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I was having accuracy issues with 147gr Zeros and TiteGroup in my M&P Pro too... I picked up a Storm Lake barrel, and the faster twist rate (1:16 vs 1:18.75 in stock S&W barrel) definitely stabilized the heavy/slower moving bullets much better. Accuracy is vastly improved, and the velocity is significantly higher (~ 50 fps) for a given load too. In my case, the SL barrel was a huge improvement all around. While I don't doubt that you may be getting better results from the SL barrel, it's not because of the rate of twist. The other pistol I've seen most often mentioned with problems with 147 grain bullets tumbling is the CZ-75 series, which uses a 1-10" rate of twist. I haven't done my experiment with 195 grain bullets at low velocity yet, but I can say from personal experience that 158 grain bullets are well stabilized from a S&W .38 Special revolver (same rate of twist as an M&P) as low as 520 fps. It actually shot into about 2" at 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I have had my Pro since June but never really worked up loads until it was pointed out at the last match that the 147 JHP Zeros with 3.2 TG were tumbling - I have since switched to 125's but would like to stick with 147's because of reduced recoil. KKM won't have replacement bbls available until April +-. Any idea's out there? I have used 147 gr. jacketed bullets with 3.4 gr. Titegroup at 910 fps with no evidence of tumbling. I actually ptrefer 4.1 gr. WSF with the same bullet at about the same velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostold Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I have had my Pro since June but never really worked up loads until it was pointed out at the last match that the 147 JHP Zeros with 3.2 TG were tumbling - I have since switched to 125's but would like to stick with 147's because of reduced recoil. KKM won't have replacement bbls available until April +-. Any idea's out there? I have used 147 gr. jacketed bullets with 3.4 gr. Titegroup at 910 fps with no evidence of tumbling. I actually ptrefer 4.1 gr. WSF with the same bullet at about the same velocity. I haven't been able to get out to the range just yet but I'll give these a try when I do. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphire Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 For what it's worth I stopped using a 147gr JHP Zero over 3.25gr Titegroup loaded to 1.125" with WSP primers due to random keyholing. I switched to a Montana Gold 124gr JHP over 3.75gr Titegroup load with the same OAL and primer and found the accuracy I was looking for. For me the slightly snappier recoil got me back into battery and on target faster too. I still prefer the 147gr load above in my Glock 34 though. Different strokes and folks I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 A lot depends on the bullet profile. I shoot 160 gr Bear Creek bullets in my Glocks. No tumbling at all with TG or Solo 1000. Clays was terrible. I could not make it work with any OAL. OTOH I just got a couple of thousand 160 gr lead bullets yesterday. Looks like I am going to have to play with this bullet to stop the tumbling. I first loaded it long - 1.160" but got some tumbling and leading. I shortened it to 1.140" and the tumbling and most of the leading went away. I gave some a little Alox bath last night so we will see if that took care of the leading issue. It usually does. These bullets have a bevel base where the BC bullets have a flat base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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