Major or Minor

[JFlowers]

I have a Model 27, 6 in 6 shot 357 built on the N frame. I have been playing with minor loads using 124gr LRN and 180gr LTC, but I need to start looking at setting things up to shoot the revolver seriously later in the year.

Would it be better for me to shoot Major or Minor? Can you push a 38 Special to major or would Major require 357 brass? If the better choice is minor, is 38 Short Colt brass the better way to go? Do all three brasses use the same moonclips?

[CJDOUBLETAP]

I have a Model 27, 6 in 6 shot 357 built on the N frame. I have been playing with minor loads using 124gr LRN and 180gr LTC, but I need to start looking at setting things up to shoot the revolver seriously later in the year.

Would it be better for me to shoot Major or Minor? Can you push a 38 Special to major or would Major require 357 brass? If the better choice is minor, is 38 Short Colt brass the better way to go? Do all three brasses use the same moonclips?

I know that 38 SC and 38 Special can go in the same moonclips.

38 SC will give you faster relaods.

I would probably say that you would need 357 brass to go major.

[Bill Sahlberg]

If you want to shoot major, the brass must be stamped .357 (and yes, you can shorten it for faster reloading) Major is easily made by the 625 and will not have as violent of recoil as the .357 major.

The question in shooting the 38/357 revo, is at what speed can you hit the A zone. If you have mastered a revo for accuracy and can shoot faster A's with minor than major, stay with minor. However, if you can only shoot fast C's & D's major will not cost you so many points.

I started in 1988 with 625s and still love them, havng come from PPC and Police competitions, I like the 38 Colt Short in my 5" 627 as the recoil is much less and I can put A's on demand on even partial targets quicker than I can shooting 357 and the reloading is much quicker too.

Try a few El Presidente's with both major and minor loads and compare your scores, this is any easy test to see which is best for you. I have found that my time is faster on a static reload with 38 Colt Shorts than 38 Special and 357, thus saving me time and improving my hit factor.

[JFlowers]

Bill,

Based on my reading of the rulebook, the 357 to make major rule has been dropped. In fact, a search of the online rulebook does not find 357 in the new rulebook (blue cover) at all.

Thanks for the thoughts otherwise.

[41mag]

I have a Model 27, 6 in 6 shot 357 built on the N frame. I have been playing with minor loads using 124gr LRN and 180gr LTC, but I need to start looking at setting things up to shoot the revolver seriously later in the year.

Would it be better for me to shoot Major or Minor? Can you push a 38 Special to major or would Major require 357 brass? If the better choice is minor, is 38 Short Colt brass the better way to go? Do all three brasses use the same moonclips?

JFlowers,

The Hearthco moon clips are your best bet, I just bought some from Dave and they are great. They are cut for Starline brass and the 38 SC and 38 spl are the same size where the moonclip fits. That being said I have found they fit some other brands of brass as well.

Major or minor? In a 625 that's an easy question for me, major. But the only major load I have shot out of my 627 was in 38 spl brass with a 158gr rn over 12grs of 2400. A side from being to dirty for competition I thought the recoil and blast was a bit much. I have not tried any other loads yet with faster powder or heavier bullets.

If you decide to shoot minor the SC brass will provide a bit of an edge in the load/reload department, but that's not to say you can't use the 38 spl brass. With Hearthco moon clips I can unload/reload almost as fast as the shorter brass, close enough to not make much of a difference in a match. The biggest fault with the longer brass is the increased chance for a bobble when unloading.

Is your gun cut for moonclips?

If you put a chamfer on the charge holes you might not be able to shoot unclipped rounds any more.

I have never shot minor in revo competition (yet) but I think the majority of folks shoots major. I would need to be able to shoot the minor gun faster at my same accuracy level to maintain the same score average. (another way of saying I don't hit all A's yet). Since I think my major loads sight picture is back before I have stroked the trigger the second time nothing would be gained for me to shoot a lighter recoiling gun. Another words my splits are limited by my trigger finger and not from waiting on the gun/sight picture to recover from recoil. I can only shoot about .20 to .25 splits and that seems to be enough time to get the sight picture back.

38 spl at major is getting up there,but several people are doing it.I my still have my eye out for a good 38spl major load to try. Let me know what you come up with.

[hdgun]

I have a Model 27, 6 in 6 shot 357 built on the N frame. I have been playing with minor loads using 124gr LRN and 180gr LTC, but I need to start looking at setting things up to shoot the revolver seriously later in the year.

Would it be better for me to shoot Major or Minor? Can you push a 38 Special to major or would Major require 357 brass? If the better choice is minor, is 38 Short Colt brass the better way to go? Do all three brasses use the same moonclips?

AS the current rules you do not need to use .357 bullet or brass. You can use 38 special cases with no problem to get to major.

7.2 grns of Unique with a 158grn bullet will get you there.

There is no bullet weight or caliber minimum. the only minimum is case length which is 9x19

I would always shoot major when possible, shooting minor just gives up too many points.

as far as moon clips go, there are a few different choices there. The only place I can think of to get clips for your 27 is moonclips.com. I do not think Heartco ( spelling ) has them.

Pending on the clip you get will depend on the brass you use IE: remington, federal,R-P. Some fit real loose in the clip and others might be tight. You would have to play around to find the right combo.

All though you have a great gun in your hands, it might not be the first choice for most Revo shooters. The 27 N frame cylinder charge holes are pretty far apart thus making reloads a little tricky. Plus you would have to have the cylinder machined for the moon clips.

Most Revo shooters here would agree that the 625 makes the best choice. the clips are nice and thick and sturdy where as the clips for the 38s are thin and flimsy. Not to mention 625 clips are about .25 cents + or - . the clips for the 27 are about $3.00 each.

The 625 is real easy to speed load too, the charge holes are close together and BIG.

On the other hand you have the guys that go off the beaten path and shoot 610s and like my self 686s.

good luck with your choices.

I currently shoot a 686 converted to 38 super and have no problem making major.

[revchuck]

I've got a M27 and a M28, both with 4" barrels, and have shot them in IDPA and had lots of fun. This is the most difficult revolver to reload quickly, due to the space between chambers and the lack of any speedloaders other than HKS. (Safariland used to make Comp Is for them, but they're discontinued and hard to find.) If you want to be competitive, I recommend that you hit the piggy bank for a M625. OTOH, if you just want to have a blast, use the M27. You'll wipe out every other shooter there in style points.

My M27 is my slowest 4" revolver (and the M28 comes next), but my standard load of 6.8 grains of Unique under a 158 grain RNL makes major with no problem and reloads as well as possible, and that's from a 4" barrel. If you look hard, you might find some 200 grain RNLs, which would have softer recoil at the same power factor.

[vrmn1]

I have found I can make major with my 6" mdl 19 with 38 special case with as low as 5.5 gr of unique and a 158gr cast rn bullet.

Get your gun cut for moon clips, get them from Hearthco and practice until your hand bleed.

A 625 would be a better gun but use what you have and enjoy it.

[Carmoney]

If you want to shoot major, the brass must be stamped .357 (and yes, you can shorten it for faster reloading)

Bill....buddy....here we go again. How old is your rule book??????

[iron hands]

If you are wanting to make mager with a 38spl you might want to load them to +P loads. You will get the power you are locking for.

[iron hands]

If you are wanting to make mager with a 38spl you might want to load them to +P loads. You will get the power you are locking for.

[Bubber]

I have a Model 27, 6 in 6 shot 357 built on the N frame. I have been playing with minor loads using 124gr LRN and 180gr LTC, but I need to start looking at setting things up to shoot the revolver seriously later in the year.

Would it be better for me to shoot Major or Minor? Can you push a 38 Special to major or would Major require 357 brass? If the better choice is minor, is 38 Short Colt brass the better way to go? Do all three brasses use the same moonclips?

JFlowers, which sport are you going to paticpate in with the revo? USPSA, IDPA, ICORE etc: Speedloaders are just about non existant for the revo you are looking at except for the Maxfires and the HKS, that I know of. You can't find Dades anymore. So cutting for moonclips is about the most competitive way I have seen. As for making major with the 38 special, it is very doable. A clean burning powder is a must. The one time I was shooting major out of the L frame I was using Accurate # 7 and 160 grain hard cast lead, made it easily. It burnt clean but it was a handfull. I shoot minor to save wear and tear on my arms and elbows. But you have to shoot 90% A's quickly to be competitive. They're are a few guys trying it at this time and should have some good info to see how it is going. later and Good luck rdd

[jasond]

Anybody ever shortened .357's here?

I'm shooting a 627 and short colts in production, but I'd like to try a major load and shoot L10 and revo. I have .357 brass coming out my ears, and a good trimmer. Can I replicate .38 super, or are the cases too thick?

I can't afford to slow down the reloads further with long brass!

[David Sinko]

You can easily and safely make Major with the .38 Special. Some very experienced reloaders are claiming to actually make Major with their 2" J Frame .38 snub revolvers, using 158 gr. cast bullets and heavy charges of SR4756 that were published in the old Speer #8 manual. In any event, it seems SR4756 is the ideal powder for heavily loaded .38 Special.

Dave Sinko

[Tom E]

Can I replicate .38 super, or are the cases too thick?

Trim one and see. I would expect some variance between different brands of brass.

[AzShooter]

I shot my 686 today with LBT 180 grain bullets in .38 cases with a nice load 170 pf. With that heavy bullet it wasn't too much different than shooting my 135 pf minor loads. I could tell the difference but it wasn't enough to discourage me.

BTW I shot 90% A zones. The faster I push that bullet the more accurate it becomes. Right now I can get 5/8 inch groups from the bench at 25 yards with both the 686 and my 627.

Now to try to get that accuracy with my minor loads. I don't want to shoot it for ICORE..

If you want a real nice load with the 180s that is listed in loading manuals as +P, go with 5.3 to 5.5 grains of Unique. My gun will do it with 5.3. The max charge listed for .38 cases is 5.5. Since we are shooting them in a .357 frame it's possible to excede 18000 psi and even approach 40000. Later I inted to try some Blue Dot for flame thrower loads to use in our Thursday night matches.

Sorry but I do not give out loading data that is not in loading manuals for your safety.

You may make it with H4227, the highest load I've seen is 11 grains but it doesn't state barrel length. and produced 890 fps. You need 916 fps with the 180 grain bullet.

I seat my major loads to 1.58 ", the same as a .357 round with this bullet. Since I've got thousands of .38 cases I stay with one case. I also mark the cases so that I don't get them mixed up and I make sure I get them all back so no one else uses them in their guns. I don't know how many loads the cases will handle but I'm at 10 loads so far.

The biggest problem was not putting enough powder in the case for the 180 grain bullet. Minor loads would have primers backing out almost like firing cases with no bullets in them. As I increased the charge to +P and beyond cases still extrated smoothly and the primers stopped backing out.

For minor I use my .38 cases. Again I have cases of cases.

I shot a lot of .38 SC and they worked fine. Cases seemed to extract quicker and I never had a case stick under the star.

If you buy Starline .38 SC brass get your moons from Hearthco and tell him it's for Starline brass.

Keep us informed as to your loading results.

You can see how long I seat the bullets here.

Edited February 2, 2009 by AzShooter