Pushing The Envelope

[mcoliver]

When your navigating a stage, how do you shoot at 110% of your ability?

[tightloop]

You ask TGO to put on a McOliver mask and shoot it for you.

[TDean]

I'm not sure you want to do that.

Remember the 'ol "smooth is fast" saying?

I've seen guys shoot 110% and it's ALL or NOTHING.

They will either smoke it with lucky hits, or..... find a reason to explain the MIKE.

There are probably areas of your game, that if video taped, would reveal the 1.23 seconds you could shave on a typical stage.

An outstanding baseball hitter doesn't swing 110%, more like 90%

It may look like 110% to some, but feels like 90% to him/her.

On the other hand, if you're trying to push yourself to see what "happens".

Go for it! Lot's can be learned from that. I just wouldn't do it in a match.

[Flexmoney]

When your navigating a stage, how do you shoot at 110% of your ability?

Like Tom said...luck.

Shooting at 110% makes you a hero...or a zero. (and, ultimately lands you lower on the score sheet)

[mcoliver]

I intentionally didn't elaborate and just asked a seemingly simplified question.

When dry firing, say a draw, it's easy to really push it by looking only at the speed aspect.

Then we talked endlessly about sighted fire, controlled pairs, seeing the front sight and so on. All in a complete state of relaxation (ideally) to be able to make the end result of shooting faster with better hits.

So now I want to combine these concepts shooting a real stage. And I want to push it even further.

But I'm stumped because I don't know how to do it or where to start.

Am I suppose to treat it like a dry fire routine and go for raw speed in all actions? Or selectively perform some at speed (say a dead run betwen positions) then shoot at my pace? Or do everything in complete abandon?

Or am I just putting to much thought in this and should probably just shoot the stage the same way I've been shooting them?

[TDean]

Someone else says "..shoot slow, do everything else fast.."

It may be all about changing gears. For example, there are a lot of stages that sucker the shooter into shooting the entire stage too fast because the first target is a reallllly quick-turner (or similar). We have to be flexible.

You need to shoot at your comfortable pace, but explode from position-to-position. Starting moving from box A while firing the last shot, having the gun at eye level BEFORE entering box B. You know, all that stuff.

Positively the one thing you do not want to do is pull the trigger faster to save time!

You mentioned the draw. The elements of a Champion's draw may be the perfect comparison to the strategy of shooting a stage well.

-Speed

-Precision

-Braking

-Repeatability

Thanks for making me think about all this stuff again

[Steve Anderson]

This is a great topic.

I believe you need to internalize all conscious improvements into the subconscious. This allows a return to autopilot mode which is calling every shot.

For example, prior to the PA tri-state I had been working on shooting on the move almost exclusively. At the match, I really focused on the shooting while moving and those bits went really well.

Problem: I took the rest of the shooting for granted, which Is quite different than not thinking about it.

I called the shots on the move, and got sloppy on the rest here and there.

The place to push the raw speed is practice. The match should be flown on autopilot, almost observing them match in a third person sense.

You may not get a .7 draw at a match, but if you get one in practice, you may get a .8 at the match. But if that .7 draw is your primary focus you might get it and then miss the popper at 10 yards...

Make any sense?

SA

[vluc]

Funny you bring this up.

I noticed a major improvement after a local match when I really just let everything go. I tried to shoot fast, move fast, make/take shots I normally would not, etc. Some of the M, and A shooters commented both positively and negatively on what I was doing, but i just had to know what I could do.

Tanked some stages, did well on others, but the confidence boost it gave me was unbelievable. Just a lowly "mid-C" class shooter in production, but after that monthly match, I started hitting "B" level classifiers and watch my classifier average jump.

It was only until I internally felt I was ready to do it that it happened. Found in the past if I do it because someone else thinks I am ready, it just does not work out.

I knew I was runnign 110+ on that day...but not always in the right direction, but that's okay as well...I learned what not do do as much as what I can do.

[Steve Anderson]

one more thought.

Lately I've been thinking of it this way:

Practice vs. match is like pushing a swing.

Your performance is a person sitting on the swing. The harder you push it practice, the higher it will go NATURALLY in the match without having to push it all.

And as Vluc says...you can suprise yourself if you really push it in a match, but at the cost of consistency.

Sometimes you gotta say what the Fcuk.

But consistency wins matches.

I feel like I'm on the edge of a consistency breakthrough...but how do you do something you're not supposed to do consciously? There is only the shooting.

I do know that every time I've done very well and shot consistently, I've been the only shooter in the match in my head.

As soon as another shooter gets in my mental match and I try to beat or sustain a lead over them, it's all over.

This can happen at any time, and the mental process is amusing and maddening:

1. I call every shot on 6 of 10 stages. "wow, I'm in the hunt here, if I win a stage I'll be sittin' pretty"

2. Here comes alpha mike to crush my dreams.

It's doing what got us here that will get us there.

(chris farley in tommy boy, holding his sale: You're naughty )

I'm gonna put the mental blinders on and let everybody else get freaked. maybe.

SA

[Flexmoney]

When dry firing, say a draw, it's easy to really push it by looking only at the speed aspect.

Speed...this is the bait. Around here...the upper C, most of the B, and even some A shooters get suckered into the "speed trap".

The best dry-fire routines work on things besides speed, as well.

- Index. Close your eyes and present the gun (Brian has some index drills in the back on his book)

- Draw to acquire the sights. Don't even pull the trigger. Draw, then bring the front sight into a razor-sharp focus.

- Iron sighted target transitions/focus. Snap eyes to target, bring gun to target, snap focus to a razor-sharp front sight...find next target...

That kind of stuff. If you are just dryfiring for speed...you will be leaving things out.

Then we talked endlessly about sighted fire, controlled pairs, seeing the front sight and so on. All in a complete state of relaxation (ideally) to be able to make the end result of shooting faster with better hits.

Yep. This is the shooting. All the speed in the world is useless without the shooting. This should be Priority 1. As TDean said, "or..... find a reason to explain the MIKE".

Too many shooters run around at mach 3 with their hair on fire...then don't execute the shot.

So now I want to combine these concepts shooting a real stage. And I want to push it even further.

But I'm stumped because I don't know how to do it or where to start.

Correct me if I am wrong...

Are you wanting to shoot accurately...and do it fast?

If that is the case, what you are likely needing is to look at being more productive.

There are things that you can do to improve the actual shooting part of a stage. But, no amount of "pushing it" on match day is going to help in that regard. Whatever level of shooting speed/accuarcy you bring to the match...that is what you have to shoot with. Don't try to outrun you current ability level at a match...you will lose.

Sounds like you might want to focus on all of the "other stuff" that needs to be done to get you to the shooting of a stage.

Am I suppose to treat it like a dry fire routine and go for raw speed in all actions?

Again. Your dry-fire needs to work on things other than just "speed".

Or selectively perform some at speed (say a dead run betwen positions) then shoot at my pace?

Well...the "dead run between position" isn't the fastest way to get from the last shoot of one position...to the first shot of the next position. But, yes...there are things you can push to the max, and things you have to slow down to execute correctly at your pace (good wording).

Or do everything in complete abandon?

Nope. That is what practice is for. You do want to constantly test your limits. When the match rolls around...execute within your level.

Or am I just putting to much thought in this and should probably just shoot the stage the same way I've been shooting them?

Nah...if you were to keep on as before...you would never improve.

[benos]

First, I think it's a mistake to compare what you see and feel in practice to what may occur in competition.

It's easy to fall into this trap because, although our outer physical activity appears similar, we fail to notice that our internal psychological state is completely different (during the two different environments).

And since what is happening outwardly is not different from what is occurring inwardly, we shouldn't confuse practice with competition.

The goal of training should be to integrate the body's physical movements and techniques to efficiently and reliably support total execution of the fundamentals.

In competition however, we'll usually fair better if our goal changes to allow what we have trained to manifest, to it's fullest level.

To allow implies trust, and to trust requires confidence. Not the false confidence of the ego, but the quiet confidence that is the result of complete self knowledge.

This necessitates two completely different (mental) approaches to each situation.

In practice, train to physically act and move quickly, efficiently, and decisively.

In competition, train your mind to manifest what it has learned in practice by consciously, fluidly, moving a state of complete attention to effortlessly witness the subtle details of everything that matters.

be

[PaulW]

Brian.....That was utterly F'in awesome. I think I'll have another and read what you wrote and even better, print it out and read often. It is a perfect explanation in my humble opinion. Awesome!

[mcoliver]

Wow! Really great info guys! Thanks!

So here I was at a small club match (yesterday) ready to make 110%. But then Murphy made sure I re-learn the cardinal rule of "making sure the equipment works!"

And boy did I learn it well. Because no amount of pushing, running hard, and shooting with eyes wide open all under state of nirvana can really compensate for a gun that just doesn't feed! I guess 2 magfulls wasn't enough reliability test for the home-brewed" double recoil spring system.

It's also amazing how fast your performance can go downhill. Because the next 8-shot, all-steel stage took an embarrasingly 18 rounds and an eternity to finish. (And I was thinking of downloading my mags for "utmost reliability" since I needed only 8 shots...heh! )

In the end it was still a fun match though. Learned a lot and managed to call a miss (but still wondering why I didn't make it up )

Now if only somebody can help me get over this nagging thought:

..... find a reason to explain the MIKE.

[j1b]

Mcoliver

I remember a discussion I had with TJ once talking about practice routine. There was a time when I always practiced hard to make sure I had no misses.

Todd said he has misses in practice all the time. He has phases of practice. Execution of a plan phase where he has to do exactly what he intends to do, and then push it phase, where he just blows and goes to see what happens.

He said it teaches him two things. One is that the blow and go raises his bar in the execution phase. By going so fast he simply teaches himself to shoot fast. The second piece is he learns to see what he can't do in a match. Do something and say "ok - out of control - let's think about doing it another way"

TJ apparently pushes the envelope in practice in order to accomplish the things that BE talked about in his post. You can't feel as relaxed at a match as you do at practice, but you can have the knowledge that will get you through the situation.

Thanks

JB

[mcoliver]

j1b, thanks for sharing. You just gave me a flipside view on how "perfect practice" doesn't necessarily mean perfect hits all the time. DUH!

Hmmm, maybe I should practice alone for a while.

But then you've just given me an answer to my nagging thought (and to some snickering friends):

"Of course I missed. I'm just practicing and pushing myself beyond my limits."

[j1b]

That was always my excuse too

[eerw]

"Of course I missed. I'm just practicing and pushing myself beyond my limits."

That has always worked for me...

I talked with Matt B. about doing this too..during practice and at club matches for training. To push one time..on the edge, to see what it looks like and see what the inputs are at that level..then shoot more aware match..where you see and call everything. The goal to bring the two closer together, build the confidence at being at the edge and train your subconscience that you can perform at that level and see that fast.

[benos]

then shoot a more aware match..where you see and call everything. The goal to bring the two closer together, build the confidence at being at the edge and train your subconscience that you can perform at that level and see that fast.

That's excellent.

When "pushing," don't just "push" (your speed, without seeing anything). Be sure to "push" (or "raise") your vision to a higher level as well.

No matter what you call it - pushing, not pushing, just shooting or whatever - if you're not seeing anything you are not learning anything.

If you didn't learn anything worthwhile, you have nothing in which to trust.

If you cannot trust, you cannot act decisively.

In competition, if you push without seeing anything, eventually you will fail.

be

[Flexmoney]

I am sitting at Lowe's...waiting for my gf (just need a piece of tile, so we did the quick drop-off thing). While I wait, I reach for the book...open up to a random page. The secition I read was on trigger control. Fits here perfect.

When in doubt...whip it out (the book, that is).

[Jasonub]

Are you ready????

Standby!!!

Then whip out your thing!

Oops the book i did not see that