G34 Feed Problem

[pbairborne]

My girlfriends 20 year old daughter shot her first IDPA match with me. She did pretty well and more importantly had a ball and will be back. She used my G34. The only mod to the G34 is that it has a drop-in Storm Lake barrel so that we can shoot lead. As we were preparing for the match over the last couple of weeks, I had her try out a range of ammo to see what she liked the best.

In either my G34 or G17, I've been using bunnyfarts. That is, either 147 Rainier over 3.0 gr Solo 1000 with COL of 1.140 and WSP's. These have chrono's at a pf of 129. I've also been shooting 147 Precisions over 3.2 gr Solo 1000 at 1.140 OAL and WSP's. I haven't been able to chrono these, but have to believe that the pf has got to be over 130. They are loaded on a Dillon 650 using an EGW undersize die.

For me, in either gun, both rounds function flawlessly. but for Colleen, we had regular failures to feed. In all cases, the rounds would feed upward and the end of the bullet would hang up on the upper rear of the chamber, and the slide would stick about halfway open.

We switched her to 125 RNL/4.2 W-231/1.125 COL/WSP/ PF 136. These rounds ran well for her, but they sure shoot more harshly than my bunnyfarts.

She can continue to shoot this load, but I'd sure like to know how to get the soft shooting 147 gr loads to work for her.

Neither I nor the RO saw any suggestion of her "limp wristing."

I was thinking of trying a weaker recoil spring, although last nite's RO thought that we might need a stronger one. Later this week, Colleen and I will try out some 147 loads made a bit shorter to see if that'll work for her. And I'm going to switch out the recoil spring from my 17 into the 34. My 17 will cycle perfectly on rounds that are too soft to run in the 34. So this ought to give an indication of whether a weaker recoil spring will cure the problem.

Have any of you more experienced shooters had similar experiences? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bill

[Rob D]

In my small amount of experience, using loads close to the 125PF floor require a lighter spring to feed consistently. I run the 14lb.

[chrisa006]

If the rounds run when you shoot it and not when she is it maybe a grip issue. Maybe a weak grip/wrist or a thumb slowing down the slide. Most likely the first.

[pbairborne]

I neglected to add that the same failure to feed occurs when her mother shoots the loads.

...so maybe it is a genetic thing. Just joking.

Thanks for the suggestions. We'll take another look at Colleen's grip and I'll get in a weaker spring and try those.

[MikeFoley]

Without exception, weak loads for women and kids in Glocks will not work. They don't offer the pistol the resistance it needs. Raise the power factor to at least 135, teach them the crushing grip technique. This is not new, it happens every few months exactly as you have described.

[Nik Habicht]

In my extensive Glock experience, shorter is better as far as COL is concerned. My 147 gr. reloads run about 1.100 and feed reliably under all conditions --- stronghand, weakhand, retention, contorted around obstacles, etc.......

[Duane Thomas]

although last nite's RO thought that we might need a stronger one.

I am constantly amazed by the people whose immediate "solution" to a feeding failure is "Stick in a heavier spring." This will only make matters worse. It's quite possible that a lighter spring may work better for Colleen. Just be sure to go to a lighter-than-stock striker spring (assuming you haven't already) to keep things balanced out.

Later this week, Colleen and I will try out some 147 loads made a bit shorter to see if that'll work for her. And I'm going to switch out the recoil spring from my 17 into the 34. My 17 will cycle perfectly on rounds that are too soft to run in the 34.

The Glock 17 and 34 use the exact same 17-pound recoil spring, so I can't imagine this will make any difference. I'm thinking: Wolff 13-pound recoil spring and a Wolff reduced power striker spring.

[lugnut]

Awesome feedback already. Having suffered from some of this myself with a couple of my guns I'll conclude that there are a combination of things causing this.

1) Weak grip (Limp wristing is probably a bad name- a FIRM grip is needed, doesn't have to be LIMP for it to cause problems- ask me how I know)

2) Weak loads (my Glocks like at least 135PF and with 147gr bullets light springs are almost required)

3) Recoil springs- these guns are designed for service ammo not puff loads (135 PF is still light) so try a lighter spring.

With my 147gr loads I NEED a 13lb recoil spring for ultimate reliability. 15lb is ok but get occasional failure to lock the slide back, etc. Since the gun works reliably with you- I'd suggest trying a lighter spring and have her work on a stronger grip.

Edited December 18, 2008 by lugnut

[Duane Thomas]

There are some people, especially if their upper bodies are more lightly constructed, who simply can't make auto pistols work reliably that will cycle just fine when being fired by larger, stronger people. It's not really a matter of "limp wristing" or not holding the gun hard enough, or even of their shooting technique at all. They can be leaned into the gun, both arms straight as a board, holding the gun so hard their knuckles are turning white, and their joints and muscles and connective tissues simply absorb too much recoil for the gun to cycle. Going to a lighter recoil spring can - probably - cure this problem.

[lugnut]

There are some people, especially if their upper bodies are more lightly constructed, who simply can't make auto pistols work reliably that will cycle just fine when being fired by larger, stronger people. It's not really a matter of "limp wristing" or not holding the gun hard enough, or even of their shooting technique at all. They can be leaned into the gun, both arms straight as a board, holding the gun so hard their knuckles are turning white, and their joints and muscles and connective tissues simply absorb too much recoil for the gun to cycle. Going to a lighter recoil spring can - probably - cure this problem.

Well said. I'm convinced that a more aggressive forward stance may also help too.

[Duane Thomas]

Well said.

Thank ye muchly.

[pbairborne]

Thanks to all who have provided the great feedback. Colleen and I will be off to the range tomorrow PM to try out some of the suggestions. Tomorrow afternoon I'll be checking around to see if I can find reduced power springs locally.

[shooterready]

There are some people, especially if their upper bodies are more lightly constructed, who simply can't make auto pistols work reliably that will cycle just fine when being fired by larger, stronger people. It's not really a matter of "limp wristing" or not holding the gun hard enough, or even of their shooting technique at all. They can be leaned into the gun, both arms straight as a board, holding the gun so hard their knuckles are turning white, and their joints and muscles and connective tissues simply absorb too much recoil for the gun to cycle. Going to a lighter recoil spring can - probably - cure this problem.

What Duane says. Body mass. That's why my Glocks work so well

[Duane Thomas]

LOL. Literally.

[Duane Thomas]

pbairborne,

Please let us know what happens.

(BTW, looking at your screen name, were you Airborne? Me, too! Long ago and far away....)

[pbairborne]

Actually I wasn't in Airborne. The screen name came from the fact that I spent my career as a research chemist. The chemical symbol for lead is Pb. And what I do is get it airborne.

Last nite Colleen and I went to the range. We tried a couple of things including the 147 grain loads at COL of 1.10. She still got some FTF's with that load. I have an old G17 that will reliably shoot rounds way under PF 120. I'm not the original owner, so while I presume that it has an OEM recoil spring, it could be reduced power. If it sounds like grasping at straws, perhaps it was. At any rate, it didn't change the outcome and we still got FTF when she put that spring in the 34.

I'd tried a couple of local smiths to see if they had reduced power recoil and striker springs yesterday but struck out. So this AM I ordered a couple of reduced power springs. They should be here next Tue, and we'll test before the IDPA shoot in the PM.

We also did see that occasionally she has a grip issue, with her left hand sometimes getting a bit loose on recoil, so we're going to have to work on that a bit. It also seems pretty reasonable that body mass is also involved. She only weighs about 115.

Will report back when we have good data.

Bill

[big_kahuna]

pbairborne,

Try putting the stock barrel back in and letting her shoot it. See if that makes a difference in reliability. Stock barrel will have a looser chamber than LW, and may accomodate the slower slide speed of 147 bunnyfart loads better. Precisions and plated bullets should be fine in stock barrel also.

[pbairborne]

Thanks, Kahuna, your suggestion is an easy one to try. We should get a chance to experiment a bit after a match tomorrow PM.

[AustinMike]

Storm Lake barrels have a real tight chamber if I recall. That's probably part of the problem. I had feeding issues with a LWD barrel some time back and the solution for me was to seat the bullets a little deeper (adjusting powder charge, of course.)

[RH45]

I had to change to 13# springs in my 34, and my 35 to get them to reliably run my "gamer" loads, even with stock barrels.

Also, with the lighter recoil springs, when the slide comes forward, it is a little softer, less/no front sight dip.

[pbairborne]

We went to a shoot last nite, and afterwards, we had a bit of range time to try out some things. Colleen installed the original G34 barrel and shot some of my loads 147gr Rainier/3.2gr S-1000/1.140 COL/WSP - not yet chrono'd, but I expect them to be somewhat over PF 130.

At first we did see the feed problems previously reported, but after working on her grip and stance, she shot several mags full with no problems.

Reduced power springs are due on Tuesday, but it sure seems like we're on the right track.

[MemphisMechanic]

147 Precision Delta FMJ

3.2 Titegroup at 1.145" (128/130 PF cold/hot weather)

Stock 34 except for springs, sights, and griptape

Springs: 13lb ISMI recoil spring (lone wolf distributors carries 'em) captured on the factory plastic guide rod. Trigger spring is a Glockworx, striker spring is a 4lb Lone Wolf.

My wife DOES limpwrist. She shoots very rarely: Doesn't disapprove of my hobby/sport, but isn't eager to come with me to the range, either. The combination works great for her, though. The gun flips like a mother in her hands, but it works just fine.

If the gun still acts up with a 13-pounder installed, I'd up the charge to about 135-140 PF, so it's just a bit softer than factory ammo, for her. Back it off as she learns to manage recoil more effectively.

Even with factory ammo, ALL Glocks should have 13-pounders installed for competition use. It's just so much easier to track the sights...

Edited December 23, 2008 by MemphisMechanic

[GmanCdp]

There are some people, especially if their upper bodies are more lightly constructed, who simply can't make auto pistols work reliably that will cycle just fine when being fired by larger, stronger people. It's not really a matter of "limp wristing" or not holding the gun hard enough, or even of their shooting technique at all. They can be leaned into the gun, both arms straight as a board, holding the gun so hard their knuckles are turning white, and their joints and muscles and connective tissues simply absorb too much recoil for the gun to cycle. Going to a lighter recoil spring can - probably - cure this problem.

try to figure this out...this spring at a regional match,while in line for the chrono,a lady was shooting a glock 17/34[can't remember]and she was having trouble making Pf at the chrono along with a few jams...so another SO took her gun and shot thru the chrono and he MADE PF..shot it 2 times ..gave the gun to her and she failed the chrono,he shot it again and made PF...we went nuts trying to figure that out,and they let her go on and shoot...

[lugnut]

try to figure this out...this spring at a regional match,while in line for the chrono,a lady was shooting a glock 17/34[can't remember]and she was having trouble making Pf at the chrono along with a few jams...so another SO took her gun and shot thru the chrono and he MADE PF..shot it 2 times ..gave the gun to her and she failed the chrono,he shot it again and made PF...we went nuts trying to figure that out,and they let her go on and shoot...

In all the reading I've done I've never heard anything like this but it's always made me wonder. If a person uses a firm grip then I would guess the "gun" has to do something with all the recoil/power. If the shooter doesn't hold the gun firm and the recoil is "dampened" by a weak grip what happens? I'd love to hear more on this as I think you are on to something.

[AustinMike]

try to figure this out...this spring at a regional match,while in line for the chrono,a lady was shooting a glock 17/34[can't remember]and she was having trouble making Pf at the chrono along with a few jams...so another SO took her gun and shot thru the chrono and he MADE PF..shot it 2 times ..gave the gun to her and she failed the chrono,he shot it again and made PF...we went nuts trying to figure that out,and they let her go on and shoot...

Was it a chrono outside of a box? If so, perhaps bullet height over the sensors was a factor (the SO shot at one height and she shot at another?) Just a wild guess, don't know if that would even make a difference.