Glock 21 mods for CDP IDPA

[Lumpy McSoo]

Hello,

I have a Glock 21 that I have so far modified with a Lone Wolf 3.5 lb connector and a Bar-Sto barrel and it feels pretty good and actually is quite accurate. It is not as accurate as my Les Baer Super-Tac off of a rest but I actually shoot this gun better offhand and on the move.

My main question is what can I do that will make it even better but still keep it legal for IDPA in CDP (NOT SSP).

I was probably going to get a normal weight steel guide rod with ISMI spring that matched my still IDPA PF loads.

After market barrel from Bar-Sto.

Warren Tactical sights, with fiber optic for competition and tritium night sights for carry.

Connectors, disconnectors, trigger bars (still for CDP), titanium or reduced weight stainless strikers, etc. Glock-Worx triggers, Lightning Strike triggers, and so on...

What is the top of the line "trick out" for a Glock 21 to be used for CDP in IDPA?

I am thinking about using my current CDP IDPA G-21 for a future backup competition gun. Buying a new G-21 and putting all of the "highly recommended higher end" parts in for a new competition gun. And getting and putting the XS small dot sights on another new G-21 with all factory (unless a lawyer can convince not to alter a carry gun except for sights) for my winter carry gun else I use my G-30 and/or my G-36 both with the big ass XS big dot sights that are quite good out to 15-25 yards despite their size on a -0/-1 zone IDPA target. Do they compare to a 1911 at 50 yds, hell no, but that is not why I have them in that configuration.

Thanks, Lumpy

[SDM]

I would get the Warren sights (plain black for me), some Tru-grip, and one of the light connectors and end it there. I’ve got Glock, Scherer, and LW connectors and while I can tell a difference between them, it’s not enough to matter.

[Duane Thomas]

I've played with a lot of different after-market Glock parts over the years. Lately I've actually been "de-customizing" the guns by pulling off all the stuff I've found doesn't really add to their shootability. These days my recommended mods would be:

(1) Decent steel sights, whatever works for you.

(2) Factory Glock 3.5 pound connector.

(3) Get the American Gunsmithing Institute DVD Making Glocks Rock and polish up the trigger components yourself.

(4) Tweak the mag button spring so the mag button is not so stiff to depress.

(5) If the gun has an extended slide stop, yank it and replace with a stock Glock low profile slide stop.

(6) A Pearce grip frame plug.

(7) Some sort of grip tape.

That's it. In my opinion everything else is just flash and sizzle, no steak.

[Paul Burtchell]

Just my personal choices, YMMV.

Dawson Adjustable Rear Sight

Dawson Fiber Optic Front Sight

Vanek Custom Classic Grand Master Trigger Kit

Grip Tape

Good to go, but some would say heresy for CDP

Edited December 12, 2008 by baerburtchell

[Steve J]

I would take it and some cash and trade for a 1911 for CDP, but that's just me. I'm a purist.

[Paul Burtchell]

I would take it and some cash and trade for a 1911 for CDP, but that's just me. I'm a purist.

The walls have ears

[lugnut]

I've played with a lot of different after-market Glock parts over the years. Lately I've actually been "de-customizing" the guns by pulling off all the stuff I've found doesn't really add to their shootability. These days my recommended mods would be:

(1) Decent steel sights, whatever works for you.

(2) Factory Glock 3.5 pound connector.

(3) Get the American Gunsmithing Institute DVD Making Glocks Rock and polish up the trigger components yourself.

(4) Tweak the mag button spring so the mag button is not so stiff to depress.

(5) If the gun has an extended slide stop, yank it and replace with a stock Glock low profile slide stop.

(6) A Pearce grip frame plug.

(7) Some sort of grip tape.

That's it. In my opinion everything else is just flash and sizzle, no steak.

That's a good set up.

Duane- what do you do to tweak the mag button spring? I thought I was imagining things as I thought the 21 mag release was harder to depress as well!

[Flexmoney]

CDP? They let you put on a bigger mag button, right?

[VegasOPM]

I'd look into a good trigger kit- I like Glockworx, but Vanek also comes highly recommended- along with the sights, mag release, etc. While practice can make you pretty good with the trigger, you are competing against highly tuned Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, etc triggers in that division. You have to be that much better of a shooter to overcome the handicap. The better you get, and the better that your competitors are, the harder it is to overcome small handicaps. That was a lesson that has taken me a long time to learn.

[lugnut]

CDP? They let you put on a bigger mag button, right?

Here is what it says in the rulebook:

PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list):

10. Extended magazine release (button may not be oversize in

diameter or protrude more than .2” out from the frame).

EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list):

2. Oversize diameter magazine release buttons.

So on the G21 you can have an extended mag release.. but no buttons.

Edited December 13, 2008 by lugnut

[badchad]

Less and less. My 2 drop in triggers are now in my spare parts box. I’ve pealed off my grip tape and don’t miss it a bit (one less thing to screw with). Just took out my metal guide rods and went back to stock (it’s easier to clean the gun and I don’t have to remember what weight spring I have).

I’m starting to think good sights are all you need, though my USPSA Limited guns still wear magwells. Aside from that I don’t think you can purchase much in the way of performance. A lot of this was said by the more experienced members when I was asking the same type of questions as yours. I didn’t listen and bought all the doodads anyway and for the price I could have had another gun or two.

[Duane Thomas]

Duane- what do you do to tweak the mag button spring?

Once you've got the spring out of the gun, take a pair of smooth faced pliers (I use a pair of hognoses), gently and slightly bend the mag button spring, then reinstall. Getting exactly the tension you want may require removing and reinstalling the spring several times, tweaking its curvature in-between.

[Lumpy McSoo]

Thanks for all of the ideas. I pretty much received what I thought I would for answers.

As far as a 1911, I have a Les Baer super tac but under pressure, shoot the G-21 better, especially at closer range. The main thing I would be interested in is fine tuning the trigger (ie. lighter striker? does it really work?) to get it even a little smoother.

My main issues are I normally carry a G-30, sometimes a G-36, and previously a G-21. I used to carry (but still own) a Nighthawk Custom Predator III and before that purchase a full size Government Kimber. With no stress, in a lane or outdoors, I always shoot the 1911s better but I do have larger hands and sometimes under high pressure instruction/coursework/practice with the 1911s I sometimes would not depress the grip safety enough and one handed at close range I would not fire. Yes, my hands are large enough that I can get a firm grip on the front of the grip and get my finger on the trigger but not completely drepress the grip safety. Happens a few times out of 100, but a 2 or 3 percent chance is not small enough for me to feel comfortable with. Not a malfunction, except for by the shooter. This is why I switched to Glocks. No issue and with the G-21/G-30 frame and my larger than normal hands make the trigger pull pretty smooth, especially compared to my G-22/G-34/G-35.

In this off season I am going to shoot the Baer a bit. I probably will on the same day occasionally shoot classifers at an indoor range with both guns, alternating which gun I start with. I love the NHC Predator III but the few times it didn't go bang one handed, even with much dry fire drawing and practice, make me leary not of the 1911 but of my ability to get it to go bang when I need it to. Also, I do shoot the G-21 relatively well so I thought anything that I can do to make it more like a 1911 trigger and lock time, then hey, why not try.

Oh, and just in case it wasn't painfully obvious, my main reason for shooting IDPA is to get more practice with the type of gun I carry. I love both my Glocks and my 1911s but I just want to carry what I am most comfortable and mainly most proficient with even though hopefully I'll never have to use my carry weapon.

Thanks again, Lumpy.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Lumpy McSoo

[waktasz]

Ever think about just having your grip safety sensitized or even pinned?

[Lumpy McSoo]

Yes,

I have thought about having my grip safety altered but I am still am leery of the lawyer crazies that are out there if I did. It doesn't seem to be as much as an issue with the full size but in my 1911 carry gun (NHC Predator III) it happens rarely, but rarely is too often. I love my P-III and shoot it damn well, except for the occasional one handed burp of not going off in close range training. Why not stick with a stock Glock that always works? I struggle with this every time I carry. Pred III or Glock 30? Both guns I trust my life with. In practice, the NHC has failed me due to my hand size and nothing else. Two handed or even one handed at eye level, not an issue but one handed while indexing while just out of the holster, doesn't always go bang.

Personally I agree with the guys that if I feel my life is in danger, being a civilian CCW permit holder, that once I decide to break leather (or kydex) that I am going to fire, what difference does it matter if my gun has a 2 lb trigger or a 12 lb trigger. I am not a Cop or LEO that might be pulling out my sidearm on a more than regular basis where the Body Alarm Response/Reaction (BAR) could possilby get to me. When I decide to unholster and point a firearm at the THREAT, I do intend to do everything in my power to stop that threat.

Reminds me of a story with a former SWAT guy I used to shoot with at bowling pin shoots. He said that the "Castle Doctrine" in the state we lived in didn't apply to him since he was a sworn LEO. That I do believe. Then I chuckled when he said that it wouldn't really matter because once his wife (non-LEO) started putting rounds in the unfortunate intruder, he was able to open up as well.

I am just trying to be smart about my carry technique. I love my G-30 and my P-III. Both have had NO malfs other than some of my bad reloads, and that is just what it is. Glocks do not like 200 gr SWCs, period. Also, I only carry factory, preferably Federal 230 gr LE Tactical. It more comes down to my technique of drawing and acquiring a grip. I push the web of my hand down into the backstrap then wrap my fingers around the grip but in the case of the size of the officer sized P-III (not a full size goverenment) my pinky is just off of the frontstrap so I don't necessarily push the backstrap back into the web of my hand while pulling up and a small gap forms between the web of my hand and the backstrap. This does not happen two handed or even one handed once I bring the gun up to eye level. But this was brought to my attention at an advanced self-defense class when we were "shooting from the hip" just after holster release at very close range, such as in most real world shooting situations. The 1911 didn't go bang once in about 60 draws but the instructor leaned over into my ear and said, now your dead so what good does that $2.5k pistol do for you now? It left an impression and I still have only carried that gun when I needed a very flat profile before I got a G-36. I love that gun and shoot it well, other than in the close case of one handed just out of the holster shots.

Anyone else have any suggestions? I may go back to carrying a full size 1911 if that works but I really like the profile and handling of the P-III. How light could I make the grip safety and still not be "lawyer bad"? The problem is when this happens, there just is a noticeable physical gap between the web of my hand and the backstrap. Even if it was 0.01 lbs let off, it wouldn't matter. My hand just is not making contact with it.

I have 2 STI and 2 NHC and 1 Baer 1911s that are just worth too much to just let sit in my safe if I am not going to use them. I want to use them but have my own personal issues. I could sell one of them and get a Glcok 21 for carry, Glock 21 tricked out, and keep my current competition Glock 21 for a backup.

Oh well, have a nice day. Thanks for looking. Later, Lumpy.

[Joe D]

I would never pin a grip safety, but that is just me. The GS is pretty easy to adjust to where a minimal amount of movement will release it.

[Duane Thomas]

The main thing I would be interested in is fine tuning the trigger (ie. lighter striker? does it really work?)

Yes, it really works. The only (possible) downside it that the gun may become picky about lighting off some ammo with extremely hard primers (Wolf, S&B, Winchester white box, PMC, etc.). But if you don't put that sort of ammo in your gun, there should be no problems at all, and a significant reduction in trigger pull weight.

[Duane Thomas]

Lumpy,

There are two components to sensitizing a grip safety. (1) Taking metal off the underside of the grip safety tongue (the little prong that sticks forward off the grip safety and blocks the trigger bow from travelling far enough to the rear to disengage the sear until it - the grip safety tongue - is rotated up and out of the way as the grip safety is depressed). Thus it requires not nearly as much inward movement of the grip safety before the grip safety tongue moves up out of the way. (2) Reshaping the rightmost "finger" of the sear spring so that, though the grip safety still pops out when released, and is still fully functional, it will depress with much less pressure.

If you were to perform - or cause to have performed - these two things to your Nighthawk, my question is: who would ever know?

[Beretta Lover]

FWIW I used to shoot a Glock 21 in IDPA and I only changed to a 9mm to save money on ammo and to shoot just a little faster.

A couple years have gone by and I shoot a single stack 1911 .40 or a 45.

But I mainly shoot these exclusvely because I have a 1911 .22 conversion and a 1911 airsoft gun from Mannyusa that I can get lots of cheap (and indoor) practice with. Sometimes I think about picking up the Beretta again.

I do not think anyne gives up anything shooting a Glock, or an XD, or an MP to the 1911s.

I like my 1911 but if I had to really hose bad guys, I'd shoot the Gee Two One.

My G21 has skate board tape, a stock trigger (used to run a light one) and a Heinie rear (hey I said Heinie rear) and a dawson FO front.

Also Duane's mag spring mod is indicated (probably needed) I used to need to do the He Man thumb to drop mags quickly

If you ask Dave Sevigny what he has done to modify his Glock 34 he will tell you "I put some Sevigny sights on it" and that's it.

He shoots pretty well with his, maybe I need to try mine again...

[lugnut]

If you ask Dave Sevigny what he has done to modify his Glock 34 he will tell you "I put some Sevigny sights on it" and that's it.

He shoots pretty well with his, maybe I need to try mine again...

You know... I don't want to cause thread drift but I've heard lots of wide varying information on exactly what Sevigny uses. I've heard it's bone stock (not including his sights) to a light trigger job, lighter recoil springs and who knows what else. I wish someone could validate what he uses... just for giggles. Not that it will help me.

[Beretta Lover]

If you ask Dave Sevigny what he has done to modify his Glock 34 he will tell you "I put some Sevigny sights on it" and that's it.

He shoots pretty well with his, maybe I need to try mine again...

You know... I don't want to cause thread drift but I've heard lots of wide varying information on exactly what Sevigny uses. I've heard it's bone stock (not including his sights) to a light trigger job, lighter recoil springs and who knows what else. I wish someone could validate what he uses... just for giggles. Not that it will help me.

One of my friends asked him and that is what he told me.

Remember Dave shoots a bajilion rounds a year. I don't think I could beat him if he was using a Rossi 38 revolver

He is also a really nice guy. I had the pleasure of shooting in his squad recently (and I did not think to ask him myself).

[MemphisMechanic]

I know 3 people who DID think to ask him. They all got the same answer, FWIW.

Sights

13 pound spring

A ton of practice.

That's it. Two of them dryfired the 34 he was shooting at the time. They were different matches, so they might have been different guns. But they both had horrible scchreeee-clank unpolished factory triggers.

Edited December 23, 2008 by MemphisMechanic

[Duane Thomas]

I've heard the theory put forth that Dave Sevigny must be running some sort of super-stealth tricked out trigger pulls in his Glocks. At the 2003 Factory Gun Nationals, mere minutes after Dave had won the match, I was taking some photos of him for an article and I asked Dave, "Can I dry fire your gun?" He said, "Sure." This was all with an RO in attendance, natch. And lemme tell ya, sports fans, there's nothing special about the trigger pulls on Dave Sevigny's G34. Just a well-worn trigger pull of about 3 pounds even, with all the takeup, creep and overtravel we expect from the stock Glock trigger. What's special is what Dave can do with it.

[MSgt Dotson]

I've used my GLock 21 many times in both Limited and CDP...

Novak makes a nice Novak Wide Notch rear site, and I have a TruGlo TFO green front sight, and an OEM 3.5 connector...

My Limited mags, 3 of my mags have Arrendondo +4 extensions, for a 17+1 capacity...

The rest...unfortunately... is up to me!

[Duane Thomas]

Exactly how wide is the notch on the Novak Wide Notch?