steel1212 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yeah but it is still just a Springfield. You will never get back your money invested if you try to sell it. A LB OTOH will be worth a lot more. And you paid a lot more for it to start Kimber puts a ad in the back of front sight sure....when did they sponsor a stage? When did they put anything on a prize table? When did they do anything but put ads in magazines? Anyway, no manufacture has 100% success rate with their guns all have lemons. Its the ones that will fix those lemons with no questions asked and ASAP! STI will do that, Springfield will do that, hopefully your local gunsmith that built your gun will do that. As for Kimber I don't know never owned one, never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) I have had experience where both SA and Kimber wouldn't stand behind their products. Not near the case with STI. Them boys and girls at STI just flat out cater to their customers! Edited December 4, 2008 by Rocket35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 It looks good. However, I would prefer the standard 20 lpi checkering for max grip. That's kind of what I was thinking, but I don't believe that is an option from STI or even Brazos (or Dawson)... or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliston Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 For those of you guys with the Trojan, what is your impression of the front strap stippling? Thx The front strap works good, I actually took a little off it with sandpaper. I started in IPSC with a trojan, I knew I wanted a .45, read lots, asked lots of questions, just like you are doing. Most of the guys told me I would probably end up having more than one gun from STI so why not get started with them. I'm on STI # 2 and very happy with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I am with Merlin on the front strapping. I have a "tricked out" Springer with a grip taped front strap, and I have a full customized gun with checkering. IMO, the grip tape is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbosik Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 not to hijack, but any thoughts on the Nighthawk stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 IMO the Nighthawk stuff is over priced. The lowest price gun is in the $2,500 range. I put Les Baer guns well ahead of Nighthawks. I have a friend that bought a $500 Nighthawk gift certificate from someone for a $100. He was telling me what a great deal he got on that certificate - that is until I told him what Nighthawks sell for. Steel, I guess those full page Kimber ads in the Front Sight are free. That money must go somewhere else other than USPSA. Could you find out where that ad money is going? Sounds like we may need to investigate this. Said it once and will do so again. Les Baer makes the best premium gun for the money. Wilson, Kimber, Nighthawk and others don't even come close. Nothing STI makes is in the same universe. A perfect example, while not the same platform, is the over priced 2011 guns. In round numbers they both cost about the same. Compare fit, finish, quality of parts and accuracy. The 2011 is not even close. Some on this forum would think I don't like STI. That is not the case. I just feel that some of their products are grossly over priced. Must be that additional "they support the sport" cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Steel, I guess those full page Kimber ads in the Front Sight are free. That money must go somewhere else other than USPSA. Could you find out where that ad money is going? Sounds like we may need to investigate this. Yup it goes to USPSA......as a Marketing tool for Kimber, just like their ads in every other magazine. That isn't support that is marketing. Gun people get Front site magazine so they put their gun ads in it, plain and simple. The other companys SUPPORT us by sponsoring stages, matches, prizes, etc. Kimber does none of this. So I've said it before and I'll say it again, support those that SUPPORT us, not those that just want to sell to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashman627 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I've had very bad luck with both a custom shop Kimber supermatch and a carry gun by Kimber.Don't seem to have very good controls on what goes out of their factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 i'd buy both..then decide what i liked..or i'd ask around local shooters to see if you could shoot theirs...me...i was in the process of ordering a new PII,when i lucked out on getting a used Baer PII SS 9mm from here 2yrs ago..and i've just been flat ass tickled with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Have a Les Baer PII, and a pre-CZ Wesson PTM-B; had a couple of Kimber Custom II's and an STI single-stack.... The PII probably deserves its rep, though it's got a a definite 'hand-hammered' vibe. It's still stupid tight after 5k, and is very intolerant of ammo not loaded *exactly*. Trigger is "ok" only, and mushy. I've had enough problems with extraction, and have seen another shooter's PII jam often enough I'm reluctant to wave my 'fan boy' flag. The Kimbers...one was great (sold to a forum member, in an unwise moment) and one was ok. Both were wickedly accurate, and have nicely fitted match barrels, and forged frames. I'm not sure of the value at the > $1000 price point, like some of the Team/Gold Matches command, but a plain Custom II should be on anyone's short list, IMO. I can see the pros/cons of the firing pin safety, but it doesn't affect the trigger pull, and can be disabled. The "but they don't support US!" argument, I find specious, but that's only my probably poor opinion. They do buy a Front Site cover ad. They DO support United States manufacturing. And it's my view that WE support USPSA, which pretty much gives me a right to shoot whatever brand I want, with clear conscience, yo! STI -- had the Lawman. Nice enough, but I have two friends with Trojan's and like those more, for some reason. Sold the Lawman, and have never looked back. I liked STI's customer service when it came to another issue (on an Eagle 9mm). I do tend to agree with JoeD that the prices are pretty high, especially for the 2011's, loaded with MIM parts, but they're the only game in town. This crazy old Dan Wesson is the surprise of the bunch, IMO. It's got that weird S&W external exactor, but it's functioned perfectly, and has match barrel and bushing, and I believe forged frame. Trigger is wonderful and it's 'proofed' -- some accuracy guarantee of 1.25" at 50' or some such....Has a BoMar rear, and Dawson front sight. Only negative is no ambi, which I've yet to get around to fixing..... I don't know why JoeD is dismissive of Wilsons. Lightly used models can be found around $1.5k which is competive with the PII, and they're super I think -- seem the perfect blend of careful fit and finish, but without Baer's Vulcan Forge approach. <shrug> I've shot two Combat Classic models, which were Oh-so-nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Given the 2 choices: STI Trojan- No goofy extra worthless internal saftey systems. My two cents worth.... Adam, after owning all of those nice Matt Cheely limited guns etc.. you are not going to be satifsied with anything less than a full blown custom .. Edited December 4, 2008 by baerburtchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 you are not going to be satifsied with anything less.. Personally I don't know why he doesn't have Matt build him one :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 you are not going to be satifsied with anything less.. Personally I don't know why he doesn't have Matt build him one :-) Custom is THE way to go!!!! Drop the hammer and call up your favorite smith, "Just Do It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I probably should not be so critical of Wilson guns. I have worked on a couple that were OK, not fitted as well as a Baer. I let my negative feelings of BW influence my opinion. I can honestly say I have never had a bad Kimber. Thinking back over the years I have had 8+ .45 Customs. Some were Target models others were plain Customs. Most were stainless. Also had a pre-II .40 and a 9mm Target II. They were all exceedingly accurate and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 you are not going to be satifsied with anything less.. Personally I don't know why he doesn't have Matt build him one :-) Basically because I don't plan on using it that much and I really didn't want to spend $2200 on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 It's easy for us to spend your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 me too, I ended up finding a used chromed trojan in 40 for a good price today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 It's easy for us to spend your money. And more fun than spending our own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Alright, another TROJAN MAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drglock Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I have a kimber Custom target I paid $650 plus tax for this,Ive put 30,000 rds thur it over the years and it has never and I mean never had a malfuntion in a match,when i worked up my match loads for this gun(200gr lead semi wad cutters and WST)using sand bags for a rest I shot a 5 shot group at 20 yards that looked like one big ragged hole,it was under two inches,With that being said I think kimber and STI both make fine guns but not all of us can afford to pay $1100-$3000 dollars for a pistol this being what most STI's cost and if I could would I knowing that a $650-$850 gun will shoot just as good if not better than a $1100-$1300 gun just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 If your Kimber is a Series 1 no wonder it shoots. All the original Kimbers were excellent guns. It is the Series 2 guns that have the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I just love broad brush statements like "it is the Series II guns that have the problems". There must be something wrong with my Series II Kimbers. All have been "one hole shooters". My old Stainless Target II .45 just stacks bullets. The 9mm Target II does the same thing. I just bought another Stainless Target II in .45 today. Absolutely no slide to frame play - none. Barrel locks up perfectly. Took all of 10 minutes to get a crisp 2 lb trigger with those dreaded MIM parts. Barrel bushing is nice and snug. Heck Kimber even got the extractor tension right. That is something new as they usually have zero tension. I will run a few rounds through it this weekend to see how it groups. I gave up on the gun store I had placed an order with for a PM-7. I called them for 2 days to give them a CC number and got nothing but a busy signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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