3Gun Rules Poll

[kellyn]

Most 3 gun matches, have a 140 mm limit for the OAL of the pistol magazines in Tactical and Limited class. Not likely to get a division legal 30 round pistol mag.

[Yankee Dog]

.......................... But the upside would be a lot more competetive SG's straight out of the box. There are way more SG's sold with an 18" bbl and flush mag tube than 22" guns. Might cut back on some of the expense getting into three gun if you could grab a 870 Express Security or a M1 Super 90 Tactical and be ready to go.

I just dont by the cost argument when it comes to shotgus tubes. The thing is, there really is not a cheaper option or accessory out there than a shotgun tube extension.

Yankee Dog

[jobob]

.......................... But the upside would be a lot more competetive SG's straight out of the box. There are way more SG's sold with an 18" bbl and flush mag tube than 22" guns. Might cut back on some of the expense getting into three gun if you could grab a 870 Express Security or a M1 Super 90 Tactical and be ready to go.

I just dont by the cost argument when it comes to shotgus tubes. The thing is, there really is not a cheaper option or accessory out there than a shotgun tube extension.

Yankee Dog

But the barrels aren't cheap, if you want to change out the 18" for a 22". There aren't many companies who make a 22", so you might have to get a 24 or 26 and have it cut back and threaded for choke tubes.

[Yankee Dog]

.......................... But the upside would be a lot more competetive SG's straight out of the box. There are way more SG's sold with an 18" bbl and flush mag tube than 22" guns. Might cut back on some of the expense getting into three gun if you could grab a 870 Express Security or a M1 Super 90 Tactical and be ready to go.

I just dont by the cost argument when it comes to shotgus tubes. The thing is, there really is not a cheaper option or accessory out there than a shotgun tube extension.

Yankee Dog

But the barrels aren't cheap, if you want to change out the 18" for a 22". There aren't many companies who make a 22", so you might have to get a 24 or 26 and have it cut back and threaded for choke tubes.

so why limit the length of the barrel either. If some guy want to lug his goose through a course of fire why the heck not let him.

yankee Dog

[SinistralRifleman]

For now I am happy with using the Saiga in open when trooper is not an option. The big plus to shooting in open is that there are fewer competitors, so I only have to wait 5-10 minutes to be called to the prize table for my bottle of BBQ sauce and can of bore paste, rather than wait around for an hour or more for the same in Tac-Scope.

They should be allowed in tactical as long as they comply with all the other rules of that division. I would willingly compete against people in Tac scope with a mag fed shotgun if I was restricted to only 6 round per mag even vs the 9 they start with.

A more important issue is what division should the Remington 1740 be allowed in: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?...0902&page=5

Edited December 18, 2008 by SinistralRifleman

[SinistralRifleman]

In all seriousness though, the fact Saigas are not allowed in tactical is one of several reasons why no US manufacturer has picked up the ball with a mag fed gun.

[Benelli Chick]

It seems to me, from what I can tell, the Remington 1740 (870 x 2 How mathematical!) would be legal in all of our divisions. It's a pump, so it would be legal in HeMan, and then in Tactical and HeMan, you could start with no more than 9!

I could see how it might be a little advantage in He-Man because you'd only have to rack it half the time...except (not that I shoot a pump, and I'm a little slow with new things) I can picture a lot of live rounds jacked out all over the ground, and a few clicks when you forgot to rack! But that's just me!

I believe we would require only one round chambered at the start!

Merry Christmas to All!

Denise

[Greg Q]

It's my huble opinion that the magazine fed shotguns belong in the tactical division what is more tactical than a box or now a drum magazine.

I agree. Lots of people want an inexpensive shotgun and do not want to spend lots of money on open pistols and rifles because the Saiga puts them in open class.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Greg Q

[HRider]

It would not bother me to see box fed guns in tactical. On another note, I would like to see a six round max for shotgun in Heavy Metal (along with eight round single stack mags, like Ft. Benning). I think it would be cool to shoot an old Model 12 (or a '97) or a stock 870, Ithaca 37, etc. And, if you shoot a Garand in Heavy Metal, let them just put one round on paper to neutralize a rifle target ( I have seen the Garand scoring done at rifle matches and it works).

Just my two cents worth

Hurley

[bigbrowndog]

Russell, come shoot the High Plains SG Challenge, we ALLOW box fed SG's in Standard if they meet all the requirements.

as for US manufacturers waiting for us to allow them in Tactical I think you really dreaming, WE are such a small market, that we barely register a blip on the dollars vs. effort comparison. the Saiga is a viable platform because the country that originated it was used to that platform, the US is not, as a whole the American shooting public sees the Saiga as a novelty, or oddity. it is not in the norm, of acceptablility. therefore the US manufacturers do not see a box fed SG as a $$$$$$$ making proposition. We have had numerous attempts at legitimizing a box fed SG, all have been money making flops.

Quite plainly they are NICHE weapons, they have their niche or cult following and thats it.

I personally have nothing against a box fed SG, but i have not seen one that is as reliable as a tube fed SG. (JMO)

trapr

[SinistralRifleman]

I said it was one of several reasons....

THE main reason is the gun control act of 1968 that defines any gun with a bore over .50, except for shotguns with sporting purposes, as Destructive Devices. Several models of guns being declared DDs limited the availability and popularity. This made manufacturers reluctant to make these guns, why make something that will have a limited market because the government could arbitrarily declare it a DD?

THEN the federal assault weapons ban made it so we could not make new semi auto shotguns with detachable magazines with a capacity greater than 5 rounds

Decades of gun control made them costly, and legally difficult if not impossible to get. So saying detach mag fed shotguns are a niche market and people don't want want them en masse, is akin to saying suppressors and machine guns are a niche market. Government regulation, and the fear of it has artificially stifled the market. Only in the past 4 years has there been a viable option for a mag fed shotgun. The Saiga-12 is the best thing going until someone steps up and makes something better.

It is funny you mention mag feds being unreliable. Shooting USA interviewed me at Fort Benning as to why my gun was working and no one else's was (that they saw). I told them it's because I have been using them for over 2 years and know the gun's quirks and limitations, and how to maintain them. Too many people are treating them like AKs and not doing enough maintenance. I've shot a USAS-12 too, and they can be finicky...never tried a SPAS-15 but they are almost unobtainable. The funny thing is my guns are essentially stock except for the stock conversions on them, I refuse to modify the operating system. Russians may have designed the thing, but they are still engineers and their calculations for the system seem to work reliably.

Competition shooting tends to drive firearms technological advancements. Maybe some small independent company would come up with a mag fed shotgun if there was more demand for it in competition. We have people that spend $2000-$3000 on pistols and rifles, I can't see why they wouldn't spend the same on a shotgun.

I'd like to go to the shotgun match (there are a lot of events I'd like to go to this year)...if the trend continues with the way orders are going, I am going to not be able to get away from the shop for matches as much as I would care to. But, I will definitely keep it in mind.

Edited December 19, 2008 by SinistralRifleman

[barrysuperhawk]

bump for vote

[Mike Schramm]

If I understand the USPSA rules as they are now ( ), if I had a Saiga, I'd have to shoot that in Open, right?

That would mean I would have to also acquire an Open AR and an Open pistola, right?

Cha ching!!

Right on the first question, incorrect on the second. Any AR or Pistol can be run in Open.

Same if you have an Open AR, it forces you to shoot Open regardless of your Pistol or Shotgun division.