kurtm Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 REWARD accuracy?? Did someone say REWARD ACCURACY????? Wellllllll it,s time to drag out the good old L.P.H. Scoring Matrix....the ONLY scoring system to TRUELY reward accuracy. Remember that "punishing inaccuracy" IS NOT the same as rewarding accuracy!! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45shooter Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) all I know is that Greg and everyone at larue have done a ton for the sport. everytime a new scoring system comes out everyone bitches. I don't really care how they score it, as long as it is the same for everyone. if everyone wants to shoot it spray and pray then everyone will be scored the same. it isn't who shoots the fastest, but who hits what they are shooting at the fastest. while I might want to hit the *thumb rest [generic]* now and then, if you call it a tactical match accuraccy does count. if one of you hosers comes through the door and some a_-hole is standing behind me I want somebody to be able to hit him fast and not give me any new holes. that is tactical. I think a lot of guys are bitching before we give them a chance. If we all shoot the match and it didn't work I am sure changes will be made, and then you can complain, if not we might all be trying to get this system for more matches. A bad day at the range is beter than a good day at work Larue, thanks for running the match Dean Edited March 3, 2009 by 45shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Cool New targets I still plan to bring name tags for the no shoots Edited March 4, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxcuse73 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 So now this is going to be a "Tactical" match? I think I thought I got dinged for calling it that instead of a "Multi-gun" match. I'm with 45shooter, I don't really care how it's scored as long as it's done consistently for everybody. No matter what the scoring system is, you will always have to balance speed with accuracy. I'm pretty sure better shooters will finish higher and average shooters will finish lower regardless of the scoring method. So was it just a pun that scopes will have to stay on a single power throughout the match? Doesn't really matter to me about that either. Still just running the ol' aimpoint and still no magnifier. Not a jab Kurt, I know you run iron sights. :roflol: I think I remember seeing some iron sights on my gun somewhere toward the front and back, but don't remember exactly what they look like so I'm not sure if they're still there. Curious to see these new targets. ANY scoring system can always be improved like anything else so maybe this will be for the better. Starting to get pretty excited about the match. See all there. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Cool New targets I still plan to bring name tags for the no shoots Just for clarification, here's what the targets look like: -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtielke Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Put together a quick overlay with USPSA and IDPA targets. 0 down is larger, center is a bit higher than the IDPA target even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 NRA had to have something different. It doesn't appear to me to be better, and the 2 second and 4 second penalties are still extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The new target looks good to go. I was afraid we'd be seeing some sort of variation of the "tombstone" or the bug-looking, no face to shoot "classic" target. Good job NRA. This match seems to be shaping up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Noxcuse73, I "THINK" I have seen my sights in around the same place....but it has been quite a few years so I am really not sure. I am confused now(not directed at you Nox)...so splain it to me, accuracy makes a match "tactical", where as shooting fast makes it..."multi-gun? I think what you guys are trying to quantify is FUN FACTOR. Running and gunning at the edge of accurate control is ...well....FUN! Slowing down to make very accurate shots is a bit less so because instead of "run and gun" it becomes "stroll and Precise". Taken to the extreme it becomes a walking bench rest tournament. Now I think...dare I say know...Gregs stage designs will provide the excitement and the match will be what you make of it, after all it is all the same for everyone.....EXCEPT FOR (OK now directed at you Nox) non magnified dot shooters...I see the conspiracy all ready! I will be at SMM3G where any two hits on paper will do, so I better start shooting faster...and ...gasp...running I absolutely adore the new target! Finally something that acknowledges a center hit in the neck with a nice powerful cartridge is usually good. The NRA has a winner here as far as I am concerned, NOW where can I get them...cause I think you will see this material again! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well it seems that I am going to hit each target about 3-4 times. .30 splits for 4 shots is a lot faster than the 4 sec. penatlies. Hope they bring a lot of pasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) "...walking bench rest tournament..." I like the new target shape, but the time-down is excessive. I expect that is what we get from the NRA "bullseye" shooter crowd, though. This was the missing piece of the puzzle as to why Greg changed the rules after the match was full... The question, though...is the use of this scoring and this target mandatory to get NRA backing for the match? And should these questions be COPIED (not moved) to the "so the NRA is dabbling in 3-Gun" thread? Copied because they are relevant HERE as well as THERE... Alex PS FWIW, I have my money AND my company's money committed to this match...both of Dreadnaught Industries LLC's sponsored shooters are attending the match, and DI LLC is supporting the match with at least one AR15 for the prize table Not as much cash involved as Mark LaRue, of course, but I'm a much smaller company AW Edited March 4, 2009 by Wakal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) I am curious who "designed" the target, or where it came from???????????? it looks like a commitee designed target. trapr Edited March 4, 2009 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I like what Greg is doing, looking out side the box. I am happy about getting to shoot the match no mater how the score goes. The Penalties total on a No Shoot ( IS ) at 30 seconds. So What is the definition of ( IS,) is? Is it per hit or total per target? USPSA rules are back to you shoot it you got it, on a -No shoot- For a long time the concept of only scoring "Best Two" on paper has not seemed rite to me. It seams like 2 hits in the 2 zone should = 1in the center. A shooter could put 1 A and 2 in the C and be clean. I think that would be cool to see. Limiting shots on a target, or not recognizing hits on a target both seam the same. It would make a Race if say shooter JimO makes 4 C hits and Shooter BobE makes 2 A hits, Fast Cs _V_ controlled A hits. Score all the hits With the New targets comes the chance to break out of old scoring. Only scoring best two on paper was to make it easy on the score keeper / RO, in all the other shooting games. ( Easy ) No one that I meet in 3 gun wants easy. My tinny little handgun matches for years would score 2 C hits as the same as 1 A hits. I all but stopped that a couple of years ago to line our scoring up more with USPSA. The only reason I did that was to get our club shooters to go out and shoot with other clubs. not because it was hard to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) I CAN'T resist!! Shouldn't we also "score" no-shoots? after all a winged no-shoot isn't nearly as bad as a center punched no-shoot....Maybe for just a little "edger" we can add 10 seconds...then for shots strayinig into the d/c zone maybe 20, and for a full on the estate is going to sue the hell out of you center hit, the full 30! How about that for thinking "outside the box Jammie? KurtM Edited March 4, 2009 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Mr, jhaamey fuute and i had a discussion about the fact that, wasn't the 5.56x45 round designed to be a wounder, anyway!!! trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have always thought No shoots should be scored. The ICOR matches require a full bullet diameter inside the pef to count against the shooter. Revolver shooters hang with a tougher crowd, you can scratch one and they don't cry. Besides I was told ...infact I think you told me , "No Crying in 3 Gun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 jaymie, I know you read the retrosexual rules, and it plainly states the accepted arenas for you to cry, and 3 gun ain't one of them. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The more I read this the more I want to drop out. On the other hand, Larue does back a lot of matches with products for all the big matches and even some of the little ones. The last three gun match (the scoring was a little different then) they put on had a HELL of a prize table. So now I guess I will be there just for the prize table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Pffhht. Bitch all ya'll want to. I'm still going. I'm still going for the shooting. I'm still going for the prize table. I'm still going to get out of here for the weekend. I'm still going to see these new targets. I'm still going for a challenging course of fire (and some new ideas). I'm still going to see smoke coming off my barrel. And... I'm still going to see my out of town shooting buddies and to meet some new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMXRACER Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 +1 Pffhht. Bitch all ya'll want to. I'm still going. I'm still going for the shooting. I'm still going for the prize table. I'm still going to get out of here for the weekend. I'm still going to see these new targets. I'm still going for a challenging course of fire (and some new ideas). I'm still going to see smoke coming off my barrel. And... I'm still going to see my out of town shooting buddies and to meet some new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) I just got back home from, having a face to face with SGDM, he has mentioned "NEW" targets but he hasn't even scratched the surface on what is in store for the competitors, he told me that it would be OK for me to let the "Cat as it were out of the bag" I got to see them because I was an impartial second opinion, so here it goes........................... They have put together new falling targets like the "old" LaRue's that we are all familiar with, except that these utilize a 3" strip around the lower half of the target on its edge that will "pick up" (notice the lack of technical terms) the projectile strike and determine whether or not it sufficient energy to incapacitate the target or not. So if you are shooting "minor" your hit will NOT cause the target to fall, if you hit it in this area. However if you are like me and normally shooting "major" it will register it as an acceptable hit and cause the target to fall. The technology is much like what the military uses for the "trembler" targets except much cooler!!!!! So now you will have to deliver accurate long range rifle fire as well, center hits or no target fall. I was told the metal was from something that was picked up in the desert around Roswell!!!!!!!.................Now thats how you stir a pot!!!!!!!!quit yer bitchin' and go shoot. Thank you, for your intense attention to this post, you have been schooled, pot stirrin', bear pokin', rumor startin' 101. Trapr Edited March 5, 2009 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I kinda like the new targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 BTW, Greg did say he was going to look into the scoring and think about it. He was laughing when he said it though. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 New, Different, Challenging, fair, rewarding accuracy.. I’m in.. This Match sounds good to me! Bring it on! Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiCapMag Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I just got back home from, having a face to face with SGDM, he has mentioned "NEW" targets but he hasn't even scratched the surface on what is in store for the competitors, he told me that it would be OK for me to let the "Cat as it were out of the bag" I got to see them because I was an impartial second opinion, so here it goes........................... They have put together new falling targets like the "old" LaRue's that we are all familiar with, except that these utilize a 3" strip around the lower half of the target on its edge that will "pick up" (notice the lack of technical terms) the projectile strike and determine whether or not it sufficient energy to incapacitate the target or not. So if you are shooting "minor" your hit will NOT cause the target to fall, if you hit it in this area. However if you are like me and normally shooting "major" it will register it as an acceptable hit and cause the target to fall. The technology is much like what the military uses for the "trembler" targets except much cooler!!!!! So now you will have to deliver accurate long range rifle fire as well, center hits or no target fall. I was told the metal was from something that was picked up in the desert around Roswell!!!!!!!.................Now thats how you stir a pot!!!!!!!!quit yer bitchin' and go shoot. Thank you, for your intense attention to this post, you have been schooled, pot stirrin', bear pokin', rumor startin' 101. Trapr And you didnt take a picture for us?! Shame shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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