CHA-LEE's Tale

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Ever since I got Lasik done my vision has been very sensitive to less than optimal lighting conditions.

Can you talk a little more about your Lasik experience, CHA-LEE? My vision's not that bad, but I miss the 20/15 vision of my youth...

[CHA-LEE]

I got Lasik done a few years ago to fix my nearsightedness. When I wore corrective lenses my perscription was -1.5 in the left and -1.75 in the right so my eye sight wasnt horrible without glasses but I wouldnt trust driving without glasses. Getting Lasik done was more of a life style choice verses doing it to improve my shooting. From a life style perspective I have ZERO regrets about getting Lasik done. Not having to wear corrective glasses or contacts daily is a huge plus. Being able to wake up in the morning and see everything clearly as soon as I open my eyes is still something I am getting use to.

From a shooting perspective there are positives and negatives. The positives is that my distance vision is awesome at 20/15 in both eyes. When I RO I can usually score targets without even needing to walk over to the targets because I can usually see all of the hits clearly from a distance. Not needing corrective glasses it allows me to wear whatever sunglasses or protictive lenses I want. Having more choices in eyewear to use for shooting is nice.

There are a few negatives though. The first is that after getting Lasik done I noticed that my "Default" focal point when my eyes were relaxed was far away at about 10 - 15 yards. This means that you have to force yourself to refocus on your sights when shooting. Before Lasik my "Default" focal point was only a few feet in front of me at about the same distance as the sights would be when pointing at a target. So it was a lot easier to stay focused on the sights before getting Lasik done. It took me about a year to retrain myself to refocus back to the sights and stay there when shooting stages. The other negative is that my low lighting vision is worse after getting Lasik done. Thus my issues with seeing my sights properly when shooting in less than optimal lighting conditions. I always use clear lenses in my shooting glasses to help offset this, even in full day light, but I always struggle with seeing my sights effectively when the lighting gets really low.

From an overall life style improvement perspective I would reccomend anyone qualified to get Lasik should get it done. Its worth every penny from an overall life style perspective.

From a shooting improvement perspective I wouldnt reccomend that everyone get it done. It really depends on what division you shoot. For Open shooters who keep a hard target focus all the time it would be a significant benifit. For Iron Sight shooters, it can be a step backwards. Retraining is needed in what to focus on and you will have to change your sights to help pick them up easier.

Knowing what I know now about how getting Lasik done would affect my life style and shooting I would still get it done. To me the life style improvements far out weigh the few issues that it causes on the shooting side.

Edited November 14, 2012 by CHA-LEE

[beltjones]

Before you switch guns you ought to see if Dawson Precision can machine you a sight for your Tanfo. You could also send a set of sights to Trijicon and have them add tritium lamps to them. In any case I bet it would be preferable to have your sights milled rather than switching platforms entirely - especially to a platform that is inferior to the one you currently use.

[CHA-LEE]

Before you switch guns you ought to see if Dawson Precision can machine you a sight for your Tanfo. You could also send a set of sights to Trijicon and have them add tritium lamps to them. In any case I bet it would be preferable to have your sights milled rather than switching platforms entirely - especially to a platform that is inferior to the one you currently use.

I have thought about doing exactly what you suggested. But it really worries me when I have to create one off custom sights that are hard to make and expensive. I did some pricing around for that kind of option a while back and all of the custom work, parts, etc would probably result in a $500 pair of sights. I would much rather pick something that works with "Off the shelf" parts that are relatively cheap. Another option would be in welding up the existing sight dove tails and getting 1911/2011 style sight cuts, but again, that is a lot of work and cost to use alternate parts on my existing gun.

I am not totally sure that switching over to an M&P would be a bad thing. They are super cheap in comparison to the EAA guns, not only in initial price but in replacement parts as well. They also have a solid aftermarket following from multiple manufactures. Lastly it would be fun to succeed in Limitied division using a gun that is 1/5th the cost of the average 2011. We always say that its the Indian not the Arrow that gets the job done, so why not prove it?

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

The positives is that my distance vision is awesome at 20/15 in both eyes. When I RO I can usually score targets without even needing to walk over to the targets because I can usually see all of the hits clearly from a distance.

I would love to be able to see holes in targets.

There are a few negatives though. The first is that after getting Lasik done I noticed that my "Default" focal point when my eyes were relaxed was far away at about 10 - 15 yards. This means that you have to force yourself to refocus on your sights when shooting. Before Lasik my "Default" focal point was only a few feet in front of me at about the same distance as the sights would be when pointing at a target. So it was a lot easier to stay focused on the sights before getting Lasik done. It took me about a year to retrain myself to refocus back to the sights and stay there when shooting stages. The other negative is that my low lighting vision is worse after getting Lasik done. Thus my issues with seeing my sights properly when shooting in less than optimal lighting conditions. I always use clear lenses in my shooting glasses to help offset this, even in full day light, but I always struggle with seeing my sights effectively when the lighting gets really low.

I feel like my default focal point is not at arm's length. It takes effort for me to pull my focus back to the front sight. I wonder if your nearsightedness actually helped you learn to shoot.

I've heard that Lasik can affect your low-light vision, but doesn't seem to affect everyone's. Do you see a halo around lights sources? Or is the problem more subtle? Do you think there's anything the surgeon could do differently to minimize that side effect?

[CHA-LEE]

Thinking about it now, I do belive that my nearsightedness helped me learn to keep a sight focus while shooting when I first started. When I wore corrective lenses I used a lot smaller sight setup that was black on black (No fiber optic rods). I could see that very well and call my shots effectively. After Lasik I had to use bigger sights and a Fiber optic rod in the front sight to pull my focus towards it more effectively. Once I focus on the sights I can see them well, its just a matter of them being big and bright enough to pull my focus back to them. In low lighting conditions I simply can't see the sights well enough to refocus back to them so I end up with a Target focus and a really blurry undfined sight picture.

As far as night vision, I do have a minor halo effect around lights. I had the same thing when wearing corrective lenses so I am not sure if this is normal or a negative affect of getting Lasik done.

From what I have experienced I feel that getting Lasik done has increased my need to refocus on things at different distances. When I wore glasses I would still have to refocus on close and near items but when things were close to one another from a front to back distance perspective it didn't feel like I had to wait for my eyes to refocus between short distances. After Lasik I can notice a slight refocus dely when looking at things in successive close to far or far to close order. I am not a Doctor so I don't know the exact reason why this happens. But from a common sense perspective I think that since the shape of the corna is changed during Lasik the muscles that bend the cornia to refocus are required to move more to achieve the same visual refocus effort than before when I used glasses. When I first got Lasik done the refocus dely was pretty noticeable but years later its a lot better. Just like any muscle, the more you use it the more it will get built up to handle the new task at hand.

[partyboy424]

Before you switch guns you ought to see if Dawson Precision can machine you a sight for your Tanfo. You could also send a set of sights to Trijicon and have them add tritium lamps to them. In any case I bet it would be preferable to have your sights milled rather than switching platforms entirely - especially to a platform that is inferior to the one you currently use.

I have thought about doing exactly what you suggested. But it really worries me when I have to create one off custom sights that are hard to make and expensive. I did some pricing around for that kind of option a while back and all of the custom work, parts, etc would probably result in a $500 pair of sights. I would much rather pick something that works with "Off the shelf" parts that are relatively cheap. Another option would be in welding up the existing sight dove tails and getting 1911/2011 style sight cuts, but again, that is a lot of work and cost to use alternate parts on my existing gun.

I am not totally sure that switching over to an M&P would be a bad thing. They are super cheap in comparison to the EAA guns, not only in initial price but in replacement parts as well. They also have a solid aftermarket following from multiple manufactures. Lastly it would be fun to succeed in Limitied division using a gun that is 1/5th the cost of the average 2011. We always say that its the Indian not the Arrow that gets the job done, so why not prove it?

I Haven’t been shooting this sport for that long at all, but one of the first things I ever heard was “don’t shoot in any division or with any equipment that you can’t afford two of” So I got the M&P 40 Pro. In another month or so I’ll get a second one, an entire range of extra parts and still cost less than most of the limited guns I see just by themselves. The mags hold 20 rounds on the first one and 19 reloadable. It works EVERY TIME, and it’s far more accurate than I am. Get the FSS trigger kit and that is literally all that needs to be done out of the box.

[toothguy]

Thinking about it now, I do belive that my nearsightedness helped me learn to keep a sight focus while shooting when I first started. When I wore corrective lenses I used a lot smaller sight setup that was black on black (No fiber optic rods). I could see that very well and call my shots effectively. After Lasik I had to use bigger sights and a Fiber optic rod in the front sight to pull my focus towards it more effectively. Once I focus on the sights I can see them well, its just a matter of them being big and bright enough to pull my focus back to them. In low lighting conditions I simply can't see the sights well enough to refocus back to them so I end up with a Target focus and a really blurry undfined sight picture.

As far as night vision, I do have a minor halo effect around lights. I had the same thing when wearing corrective lenses so I am not sure if this is normal or a negative affect of getting Lasik done.

From what I have experienced I feel that getting Lasik done has increased my need to refocus on things at different distances. When I wore glasses I would still have to refocus on close and near items but when things were close to one another from a front to back distance perspective it didn't feel like I had to wait for my eyes to refocus between short distances. After Lasik I can notice a slight refocus dely when looking at things in successive close to far or far to close order. I am not a Doctor so I don't know the exact reason why this happens. But from a common sense perspective I think that since the shape of the corna is changed during Lasik the muscles that bend the cornia to refocus are required to move more to achieve the same visual refocus effort than before when I used glasses. When I first got Lasik done the refocus dely was pretty noticeable but years later its a lot better. Just like any muscle, the more you use it the more it will get built up to handle the new task at hand.

I still see at distance sharply but the closer I got to 50 somehow my arms got shorter when reading. For shooting iron sights I got some shooting glasses with a +.5 magnification. They arent strong enough for reading but they just tweek the sharpness on the front sight and keep the distance focus sharp as well. You might try experimenting with bringing your focal plane in just slightly like the f- stop on a camera. When I work I wear loops with strong magnification and a spot light. The more light available the less magnification you need.

[Jerome]

On the Salomon Speedcross 3 shoes - what is your foot profile? I know you're a bigger guy but do your feet have issues such as high arches, flat feet, wide, narrow, etc. I'm trying some Merrell Ventilators and although they feel okay during a match, my arches are really sore afterwards, like stepping out of the car upon arriving at home it's hard to walk. I have flater feet.

The 2012 Area 2 match is now over. Just before this match I received a pair of Salomon Speedcross 3 shoes and decided to give them a try at this match. These shoes have very aggressive cleats but are made out of really soft rubber so they produce really good grip on both hard and soft surfaces. I wore them all day at the range on Thursday while checking out the stages and they were really comfortable and didn’t hurt my feet at all so I decided to wear them the whole match. These shoes worked out great making excellent traction on all kinds of different surfaces. I am glad that I gave them a try at the Area 2 match. The only thing that I could tell would be a set back to using them is that they allow wind to pass through them pretty easy so using them in really cold weather would lead to some pretty cold feet at the range. They may not be the best choice for winter weather shooting but they are going to be awesome for summer. I am going to order a few more pair of these to stock up before they get discontinued like most shoes do.

[CHA-LEE]

Jerome> I have pretty "Flat" feet as well and the Speedcross 3 shoes worked fine for me. I would say that I have average width feet as well and I don't feel like the sides of my feet are cramped in the shoe either. I got the shoes online from Running Warehouse and I listed their URL below. They have a free return/exchange policy so you can order a pair, try them out and if they don't fit send them back for a refund. They ship super fast too. I am sold on them myself. I just ordered 3 more pair so I will be covered for the next few seasons.

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/

[Cy Soto]

Right now I am thinking about building up a Limited Major M&P.

What ever happened to the M&P you built last year to shoot Limited Minor?

[CHA-LEE]

Cy Soto> I still have it. That pistol is dedicated to only shooting Minor PF loads because I lightened the slide a lot. My current plan is to throw some night sights on the Limited Minor gun and shoot it a couple of matches to see if I can make it work. In the mean time I am trying to find another 5 inch .40 M&P Pro. But its looking like they are backordered everywhere.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

The Zappos page for the Salomon Speedcross 3 includes a review by a USPSA shooter, by the way.

[Cy Soto]

In the mean time I am trying to find another 5 inch .40 M&P Pro. But its looking like they are backordered everywhere.

I heard that S&W switched a few of their production lines to making more of the M&P Shields because the demand for these pistols is through the roof. They should be catching up with production in the next couple of months. I will let you know if I see one pop up in inventory.

[partyboy424]

Over here in MA (behind the Iron Curtain) I had to order the slide from Smith and Wesson since we can't get the complete guns. You can order the Slide from S&W and then all of the internals from SSS. You'll have everything in a couple of weeks. Complete builds or complete slide builds from S&W are backordered for months. This way you pick and choose your sights and barrel and it slaps right onto your M&P40 lower that you have now, so same trigger and everything.

[CHA-LEE]

Over here in MA (behind the Iron Curtain) I had to order the slide from Smith and Wesson since we can't get the complete guns. You can order the Slide from S&W and then all of the internals from SSS. You'll have everything in a couple of weeks. Complete builds or complete slide builds from S&W are backordered for months. This way you pick and choose your sights and barrel and it slaps right onto your M&P40 lower that you have now, so same trigger and everything.

That is a great idea. In fact, I called up S&W and ordered a couple 5 inch .40 slides today

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Over here in MA (behind the Iron Curtain) I had to order the slide from Smith and Wesson since we can't get the complete guns. You can order the Slide from S&W and then all of the internals from SSS. You'll have everything in a couple of weeks. Complete builds or complete slide builds from S&W are backordered for months. This way you pick and choose your sights and barrel and it slaps right onto your M&P40 lower that you have now, so same trigger and everything.

That is a great idea. In fact, I called up S&W and ordered a couple 5 inch .40 slides today

Okay... What do the 5" slides cost? I didn't think they would sell them or I would have gone that route rather than selling some of my 4.25" guns in the past when I get to a 9L and 40Pro. This kind of opens up some door for other projects. When you ordered, did they say what the lead time was?

[CHA-LEE]

Over here in MA (behind the Iron Curtain) I had to order the slide from Smith and Wesson since we can't get the complete guns. You can order the Slide from S&W and then all of the internals from SSS. You'll have everything in a couple of weeks. Complete builds or complete slide builds from S&W are backordered for months. This way you pick and choose your sights and barrel and it slaps right onto your M&P40 lower that you have now, so same trigger and everything.

That is a great idea. In fact, I called up S&W and ordered a couple 5 inch .40 slides today

Okay... What do the 5" slides cost? I didn't think they would sell them or I would have gone that route rather than selling some of my 4.25" guns in the past when I get to a 9L and 40Pro. This kind of opens up some door for other projects. When you ordered, did they say what the lead time was?

5 inch Pro .40 slide was $149. I ordered two of them because I like to fiddle with slide weights/cuts. There is no lead time. They are shipping out Monday

This is also JUST the slide, not the barrel or other parts.

Edited November 17, 2012 by CHA-LEE

[Lifeislarge]

Why don't you work something out with the guy who's currently selling an M&P in our classifieds?

[CHA-LEE]

Why don't you work something out with the guy who's currently selling an M&P in our classifieds?

I have purchased "lightly used" guns before that ended up being money pits. I looked at the gun he is selling and its a decent setup at a decent price. But I already have the majorty of the stuff he has upgraded on the gun. Right now all I have to do is swap the slide on my existing M&P 5 inch Pro and it will be ready to rumble for Limited Major.

[partyboy424]

Glad to hear they still had them in stock, same price I paid for mine a month or two ago. The only thing you'll want to do is measure the opening for the striker assembly (don't have my gun with me right now to do it) and grab a wooden dowel that's the same size for installing the plastic striker channel liner. That's the only thing that can be a pain in the ass. In fact I was so excited since all the parts came from SSS the same day and it was late after work, I used an extra M&P 45 striker assembly that I had and a Dawson nylon sight pusher tool to jimmy rig the install, though I wouldn't recommend it since you could mess up the 45 striker's plastic sleeve. Every other part just drops right in. Good luck with the build!

[Lifeislarge]

Why don't you work something out with the guy who's currently selling an M&P in our classifieds?

I have purchased "lightly used" guns before that ended up being money pits. I looked at the gun he is selling and its a decent setup at a decent price. But I already have the majorty of the stuff he has upgraded on the gun. Right now all I have to do is swap the slide on my existing M&P 5 inch Pro and it will be ready to rumble for Limited Major.

Ah. I've never had the luxury of buying anything new but I've been blessed that 98% of the stuff that I get has been great. Admittedly though I still don't know enough about the functionality of guns to know what to look out for as far as wear goes. Letting someone else eat the depreciation on major purchases really appeals to my more than frugal nature.

[toothguy]

Thinking about it now, I do belive that my nearsightedness helped me learn to keep a sight focus while shooting when I first started. When I wore corrective lenses I used a lot smaller sight setup that was black on black (No fiber optic rods). I could see that very well and call my shots effectively. After Lasik I had to use bigger sights and a Fiber optic rod in the front sight to pull my focus towards it more effectively. Once I focus on the sights I can see them well, its just a matter of them being big and bright enough to pull my focus back to them. In low lighting conditions I simply can't see the sights well enough to refocus back to them so I end up with a Target focus and a really blurry undfined sight picture.

As far as night vision, I do have a minor halo effect around lights. I had the same thing when wearing corrective lenses so I am not sure if this is normal or a negative affect of getting Lasik done.

From what I have experienced I feel that getting Lasik done has increased my need to refocus on things at different distances. When I wore glasses I would still have to refocus on close and near items but when things were close to one another from a front to back distance perspective it didn't feel like I had to wait for my eyes to refocus between short distances. After Lasik I can notice a slight refocus dely when looking at things in successive close to far or far to close order. I am not a Doctor so I don't know the exact reason why this happens. But from a common sense perspective I think that since the shape of the corna is changed during Lasik the muscles that bend the cornia to refocus are required to move more to achieve the same visual refocus effort than before when I used glasses. When I first got Lasik done the refocus dely was pretty noticeable but years later its a lot better. Just like any muscle, the more you use it the more it will get built up to handle the new task at hand.

I still see at distance sharply but the closer I got to 50 somehow my arms got shorter when reading. For shooting iron sights I got some shooting glasses with a +.5 magnification. They arent strong enough for reading but they just tweek the sharpness on the front sight and keep the distance focus sharp as well. You might try experimenting with bringing your focal plane in just slightly like the f- stop on a camera. When I work I wear loops with strong magnification and a spot light. The more light available the less magnification you need.

I have to throw my 2 pesos in here. Please check out multi-focal contact lenses. They may not give perfect 16" closeup, but they're hell on fire for distance and sight picture. I fit them a lot for shooters, and have had very good success with them. They work best with both eyes open type shooting. YMMV

[CHA-LEE]

I had to play Match Director this past Saturday for the local HPPS match. We have been gearing up to switch over from the Palm/StageScore match scoring solution over to the Nook/PractiScore solution and this was the first match to use the Nook/PractiScore solution. It worked flawlessly for the match and we purposefully didn't give specific use instructions. We simply handed them out to the squads and told them to ask questions if needed. We had a few questions here and there but nothing major. Every squad was able to pick it up and hit the ground running with very little guidance needed. That to me is the really cool thing about this new scoring solution. Any time you can have a scoring solution that is super intuitive it brings the required learning curve way down. We will continue to use the Nook/PractiScore solution from this point forward. Hopefully the rest of the clubs in the section will jump on the Nook/PractiScore band wagon as well.

From a shooting perspective I had an Ok match. Since I was super busy in the morning setting up stages and then setting up the Nook's for the match I didn't have a chance to look at the stages from a competitive standpoint. I had to figure out each stage when i got to the berm and also serve as the primary RO on the squad. Since I didn't have a ton of time to figure out or plan the stages I shot pretty conservative on the complex stages. Given the minimal amount of effort I was able to dedicate to my own shooting performance I was pretty surprised by how well I was able to perform given the situation. I had plenty of little mistakes through the match and ended up with one miss for the match. The Miss was on a heavy shadow target and I couldn't call the shots well given the poor sight picture. This performance was still good enough to come out on top for the match, much to my surprise.

On Monday I went down to Colorado Springs to participate in an ICORE match. They use Time plus scoring and tomb stone style targets. This time they painted Turkeys on the targets and you had to hit the turkey in order to score the hit. Hits outside of the turkey were considered misses. I always struggle with seeing my sights at this match due to the lighting and this match was no different. Super blury sights and I couldnt stop from focusing on the targets. I think a big part of that is due to the strange turkey targets. I ended up with a bunch of misses at this match but I realized at the end of the match that this type of marginal lighting condition is a perfect test bed for my Night Sight project. I am looking forward to building up the Night Sight M&P rig so I can give it a try at this range to see if it helps with being able to call my shots effectively.

This winter is going to be interesting. My goal is to do a bunch of sight config testing so I can settle on a new sight configuration that will allow me to shoot effectively in both optimal and marginal lighting conditions. I want to be able to shoot the 2013 major matches without worrying about the lighting conditions due to not being able to see my sights.

[johnny1gun]

Are you changing just the slide off a 9 pro? and putting on the 40 slide and berrel? Becuz I would love to do that!