Reloading on the way to cover?

[Revopop]

I primarily shoot USPSA, but I do enjoy IDPA when I can. Today the work schedule worked out and I was able to shoot a local match.

For the most part, I grasp the unique IDPA rules and in general find it pretty easy to figure out the "spirit" of the rules for most gray areas.

Here's the situation. I got a procedural today, and I'm not quite sure I understand exactly why. The scenario was 2 targets in front of you engaged from what we'll call position 1. You then move laterally to low cover (a barrel), which we'll call position 2, do a tactical reload, stand up and engage 4 more targets.

I got the procedural for starting to reload between positions 1 and 2. By starting to reload I mean that by the time I was behind the low cover in position 2 I had my first mag out of the gun and in my strong hand, with my weak hand reaching for the reload. I did not execute the reload before arriving at cover, nor did I slow down in on my way to position 2 to execute the reload.

Using the rubric of the "spirit" of the rules, why can't I start reloading on my way to cover?

[Jane]

Using the rubric of the "spirit" of the rules, why can't I start reloading on my way to cover?

Because the rules say you can't. And as with any game, the rules are as they are. IDPA is a game, not real-world ninja tactics.

If you have an IDPA rule book (otherwise, you can download it from their website), check the following from page 9

All reloads begin with the shooter’s first action to initiate the

reload (ejection of the magazine, drawing a spare magazine,

etc.) and end when the weapon is fully charged and ready to

fire (magazine fully locked into the weapon and the slide fully

forward or cylinder closed). Reloads can only be initiated

while behind cover.

There may be some contention as to what a shooter has to do if he runs to slidelock between points of cover, but that's hopefully addressed in the CoF description.

In your case, you initiated the reload before getting to a position of cover and thus earned the procedural.

BTW, as one who shoots and ROs both IDPA and USPSA, I hear complaints about "all these rules" in both directions. And have had the honor of earning about an equal number of procedurals myself in each sport

BTW... why did they have you stand up after your reload rather than using the barrel as cover?

[Revopop]

Thanks for the clarification. I've got no problem with the rules, I just wasn't sure what made that a procedural penalty. I'm planning on shooting more IDPA next season, so I think it would certainly do me good to read the current rulebook all the way through.

I don't quite understand the logic of standing up after the reload. The next stage had us kneeling and shooting around another barrel, maybe they did it that way for the sake of variety. It was on the lower range, so maybe they didn't want to have to drag the tall barricade all the way down there. I don't know.

[steel1212]

I shot a match where we shot a couple targets on the right side of a long wall with a closed door in the middle then had to run to the left corn and shoot one target there. We where told during the walk through that we could not reload on the way to the far left target, even though we where behind cover. I didn't understand that one either as we where behind cover the whole time but in IDPA do as your told and you won't add up penalties.

[RobMoore]

I guess once in a while you run across an MD who doesn't like moving reloads, no matter how much ballistic barrier there is on the course. Perhaps too used to shooting old PPC or other bullseye courses.

[Duane Thomas]

I think it would certainly do me good to read the current rulebook all the way through.

The world would be an easier place if everyone, shooters and SOs, would do that.

[HighVelocity]

I understand the frustration. I've been dinged a few times for opening a revo cylinder before reaching cover, even when I didn't.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: When I started all this an old time shooter(B Hill) told me to read the rule book, then read it again and again. If you know the rule book you will be able to question the call because you know the correct answer already. I always ask the RO/SO before I decide to do something that may be questionable. If he says no you can't do that then ask why. If he says because the rule book says you can't. Then you say show me where it says that. As you can guess I like to game it when I can. I also carry the rule book for whatever game I'm doing at the time. If there is still some dought just shoot it the way they ask you to but do it faster That reminds me I need to put the books back in the library(bathroom) Thanks, Eric

[mike4045]

I plan on earning a couple of penalties to start the match. I shoot and if it happens, it happens. Just give me a few to start and we can call it even.

[Duane Thomas]

I plan on shooting the match clean, both of penalties and points down, and how well I place tends to have a direct relationship to how well I live up to both those goals.

[steel1212]

I plan on shooting the match clean, both of penalties and points down, and how well I place tends to have a direct relationship to how well I live up to both those goals.

+1

Saying just give me a couple procedurals before the match to get it over with is like saying give me a couple mikes before a USPSA match just to get it over with. I expect zero Procedurals during a IDPA match, and to have as few points down as possible and still have the fastest times.

[Duane Thomas]

I expect zero Procedurals during a IDPA match, and to have as few points down as possible and still have the fastest times.

There you go. Winning an IDPA match is easy. You just have to be faster and more accurate than anyone else, and not pick up any procedural penalties doing it.

[RickB]

Do folks find it common to get a procedural or procedurals at every match? That is, the requirements of the CoFs or the understanding of the rules is sufficiently vague, for some or all concerned, that there's an expectation of getting dinged?

[dirty whiteboy]

Here's the situation. I got a procedural today, and I'm not quite sure I understand exactly why. The scenario was 2 targets in front of you engaged from what we'll call position 1. You then move laterally to low cover (a barrel), which we'll call position 2, do a tactical reload, stand up and engage 4 more targets.

I thought IDPA moved towards NOT requiring tactical reloads on the clock. If I remember correctly the term "any IDPA legal reload" was required/encouraged for all non standard stages.

Edited October 17, 2008 by dirty whiteboy

[revchuck]

Do folks find it common to get a procedural or procedurals at every match? That is, the requirements of the CoFs or the understanding of the rules is sufficiently vague, for some or all concerned, that there's an expectation of getting dinged?

There's no expectation of getting procedurals, assuming you follow the rules. I rarely get them (now watch, I've just jinxed myself). If the CoFs are vague, ask. While there are some grey areas in the rules, most are pretty straightforward.

I thought IDPA moved towards NOT requiring tactical reloads on the clock. If I remember correctly the term "any IDPA legal reload" was required/encouraged for all non standard stages.

It's true that the rulebook discourages on-the-clock tactical reloads, but IDPA doesn't make up the CoFs. If the person making up the CoFs likes TRs/RWRs, they'll be in there. If you don't like them, step up to the plate. The MD would probably love to have someone pitch in on stage design.

Edited October 17, 2008 by revchuck

[kdmoore]

They are discourage, except in the classifier sorry. Pet peeve has been released

Seriously, there have been a gazzillion stages talked about (give or take a quantillion). hearing about one stage that required a tR/RWR does not a "common place occurance" make.

More typically, the MD will make a TR/RWR possible without requiring it.

I applaud the move, they were pretty unpopular with the body of shooters and tacticians alike, I like the reaction to that sentiment.

I wish they'd poll the body of shooters from time to time, anything that had > 30% disapproval rating would be considered for revision.

But that's the dream world I live in

[dirty whiteboy]

It's true that the rulebook discourages on-the-clock tactical reloads, but IDPA doesn't make up the CoFs. If the person making up the CoFs likes TRs/RWRs, they'll be in there. If you don't like them, step up to the plate. The MD would probably love to have someone pitch in on stage design.

No thanks, I stepped off that field about two years ago.

[robertbank]

From my experiences as a SO at State and Provincial matches the most common procedural is a "Cover Call". Generally they arise as the competitor is attempting to move as fast as he can through the stage. Faster than I can yell "Cover".

As a shooter I generally earn procedurals in the latter stages of a match when I find my brain and body tend to have a major disconnect. Knowing and doing seem to get undone.

Take Care

Bob