Lead Count

[hopalong]

Been shooting now for 8 years, I use primarily lead bullets........well ok, I use lead except major matches.

I ONLY shoot outdoors, I average 20k+ a year on pistol alone.

Finally had mine tested.....................................................................

9

Hop

[steel1212]

Been shooting now for 8 years, I use primarily lead bullets........well ok, I use lead except major matches.

I ONLY shoot outdoors, I average 20k+ a year on pistol alone.

Finally had mine tested.....................................................................

9

Hop

Its all that hot air you keep moving out...no way for the lead vapors to stay in there lol.

Edited August 1, 2009 by steel1212

[calishootr]

I came into this thread a lil late, but yrs ago when i used to work in an indoor shooting range and shoot 9 matches a month and practice 6 days a week, we were tested at the range and I made the OSHA safety manual forthe month with a number of 85.8???? yeah, was doing everything wrong, dry sweeping the range floor w/ no mask, no change of clothes etc....got smart, masks all around, even did keylation(sp) therapy, basically overdosing on megga vitamins, got the next set of tests down into the 40's.....fast forward 10+ yrs to today, shoot less than 2 matches a month, number is below 10

[jasmap]

JT, that's a much higher level than mine is and I was working in the firearms unit at work and reloading and competing in USPSA when mine was checked. If I am reloading with exposed lead I use rubber gloves and I ALWAYS thoroughly wash my hands after work, shooting, and reloading. I have a little boy so I am careful with that stuff as I don't want him exposed to the lead.

Edited August 1, 2009 by jasmap

[cnote]

12 in 2007, 11 this year. I started reloading in the middle of 2007, so i thought it may go up some, but I guess I have been somewhat cautious in doing so, or I am lucky.

Jumped to 14 this year, with less indoor shooting, but did start loading FMJ and Moly bullets instead of plated. Does anyone know if the moly is a barrier of any sort or are they the problem along with the exposed bases of the fmj, like i said, my indoor shooting is down from the past.

Thanks

[lugnut]

12 in 2007, 11 this year. I started reloading in the middle of 2007, so i thought it may go up some, but I guess I have been somewhat cautious in doing so, or I am lucky.

Jumped to 14 this year, with less indoor shooting, but did start loading FMJ and Moly bullets instead of plated. Does anyone know if the moly is a barrier of any sort or are they the problem along with the exposed bases of the fmj, like i said, my indoor shooting is down from the past.

Thanks

My guess would be they allow some lead exposure but I don't know. Personally I'm not dinking around with anything but CMJ or plated and I'll always encourage people to use them as well... especially indoors!!

That's the problem with shooting and lead.. .it's really hard to isolate where the exposure REALLY comes from. People say to avoid indoor ranges as much as possible... but some indoor ranges are probably better than outdoors while others are horrible.

Edited January 8, 2010 by lugnut

[High Lord Gomer]

Do your research. What I read implied that the lead from the primers was more likely to cause problems than what little might be burned off an exposed base on a bullet.

Mine was 40 last January, 25 in July, and I'm awaiting the number from the test this week.

[JThompson]

Wear latex gloves when loading ammo, cleaning your gun. Same goes for handling range brass. Also, make sure your case preparation room is well ventilated or wear a respirator, esp when separating media. I revamped my whole process. My lead count dropped a bunch over 4 months. I haven't had it tested lately, but when I practice I always wear my mask now.

[lugnut]

Do your research. What I read implied that the lead from the primers was more likely to cause problems than what little might be burned off an exposed base on a bullet.

I too have researched this quite a bit. I talked to "experts" in the field of lead poisoning, etc. I have heard mixed things on this specific issue. I've heard things such as the majority of indoor lead you breathe is from primers and the atomized lead from them. Then I've heard that the majority of airborne lead is from exposed lead base/lead bullets. I honestly don't know and I'm not sure who to believe.

One thing is for certain.... I can control the bullets I use, where I shoot and who I shoot with. I can't find lead free primers.... primers in general are a PITA to find never mind finding lead free primers. Lead free ammo is hard to find and is expensive.

So if you shoot alot- make damn sure you are careful indoors especially. I was blind sided when I got my levels. I'm seriously reducing indoor range time- EVERYONE suggested that to lower my BLL.

[JThompson]

Nobody seems to give any thought to what happens to ANY bullet when you hit a piece of steel. That's where the majority of it comes from on a range. It's vaporized when that bullet hits a steel plate or backstop. Then you all walk down there to reset a stage in a cloud of atomized lead. After that it's cleaning the gun and reloading. Then comes primers and lead stripped going down the barrel and vaporized from hot gasses.

my 2pence

Edited January 8, 2010 by JThompson

[lugnut]

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to add this but I think it's relevant to this thread since SAFriday mentioned headaches here. I tested high 56, a retest the week after confirmed high lead at 49. I am almost 100% convinced that it's from indoor shooting.

Here's the thing. I didn't suspect anything wrt lead poisoning at all... just asked for a test just to see. Well I had been getting headaches- sometime REAL bad for quite a while- sad to say for years. I would usually get these when a woke up in the morning... not after a long indoor practice, not after a match, just random mornings. Sometimes 3 times a week, sometimes 4 times, sometimes once. I could NOT correlate this to anything. I thought I might be getting dehydrated while exercising- because when I played tennis on Thursday nights- I would get a major headache the next morning. Dr couldn't figure it out at all so I just delt with it.

Well.... since my BLL have come back high I almost completely stopped shooting... NO shooting indoors. I've tumbled some old brass (with new respirator) and did a little reloading (yeah I'm bored out of my mind). I have not had ONE headache in the last 3 weeks. This is good and bad to me. Bad because if the BLLs were what was causing the headaches- that would indicate that I've had high blook levels for years... Good I guess because now that I've stopped shooting indoors- the headaches seem to be gone.

I had NO other symptoms. I think my memory is as sharp as it has been and no other issues at all that I know of (thank God).

I feel it is so important to pass this on to fellow shooters- as I had no idea I'd be a candidate for BLLs that high. I shoot indoors usually at MOST 2 times/week. Be safe out there guys...

[pgh george]

<!--quoteo(post=892785:date=Jan 10 2009, 11:12 AM:name=SharonAnne9x23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SharonAnne9x23 @ Jan 10 2009, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=892785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are concerned about lead from handling bullets you can purchase a barrier cream to put on your hands. It is a block from chemical contact. I tried latex gloves and gave up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm getting ready to start reloading. Please let me know the name of this cream.

Thanks,

A.T.

A.T. After doing some research the Barrier Cream I found is called Gun Glove.

Available at Brownell's or on the internet.

[G-ManBart]

Son of a b!+@h. I've been pretty careful about lead exposure over the years and just got my lead test results back today. 37.6

We were using an indoor range that had a ventilation problem that wasn't detected until I'd instructed there for three freaking days Based on my test results, with a normal zinc protoporphyrin level (22), it means that my high blood count was based upon a recent exposure...how about 10 days before my physical for recent? A couple of guys were tested that were there for only one day (not instructors) and they were well up into the teens.

I'm going to order some of the barrier cream and get some of the decon wipes. I guess the good thing is that it was detected so I can do something about it. R,

[JThompson]

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to add this but I think it's relevant to this thread since SAFriday mentioned headaches here. I tested high 56, a retest the week after confirmed high lead at 49. I am almost 100% convinced that it's from indoor shooting.

Here's the thing. I didn't suspect anything wrt lead poisoning at all... just asked for a test just to see. Well I had been getting headaches- sometime REAL bad for quite a while- sad to say for years. I would usually get these when a woke up in the morning... not after a long indoor practice, not after a match, just random mornings. Sometimes 3 times a week, sometimes 4 times, sometimes once. I could NOT correlate this to anything. I thought I might be getting dehydrated while exercising- because when I played tennis on Thursday nights- I would get a major headache the next morning. Dr couldn't figure it out at all so I just delt with it.

Well.... since my BLL have come back high I almost completely stopped shooting... NO shooting indoors. I've tumbled some old brass (with new respirator) and did a little reloading (yeah I'm bored out of my mind). I have not had ONE headache in the last 3 weeks. This is good and bad to me. Bad because if the BLLs were what was causing the headaches- that would indicate that I've had high blook levels for years... Good I guess because now that I've stopped shooting indoors- the headaches seem to be gone.

I had NO other symptoms. I think my memory is as sharp as it has been and no other issues at all that I know of (thank God).

I feel it is so important to pass this on to fellow shooters- as I had no idea I'd be a candidate for BLLs that high. I shoot indoors usually at MOST 2 times/week. Be safe out there guys...

You need to get tested for sleep Apnea too; headaches in the morning are one of the indicators or shallow breathing or stopping and starting. It's basically oxygen deprivation and headache can be a flag for it.

Best,

JT

Edited March 16, 2010 by JThompson

[JThompson]

Son of a b!+@h. I've been pretty careful about lead exposure over the years and just got my lead test results back today. 37.6

We were using an indoor range that had a ventilation problem that wasn't detected until I'd instructed there for three freaking days Based on my test results, with a normal zinc protoporphyrin level (22), it means that my high blood count was based upon a recent exposure...how about 10 days before my physical for recent? A couple of guys were tested that were there for only one day (not instructors) and they were well up into the teens.

I'm going to order some of the barrier cream and get some of the decon wipes. I guess the good thing is that it was detected so I can do something about it. R,

Wear a respirator until you get the levels down... Once they are up even minimal exposure will maintain or greatly reduce the rate of give back. Use the wipes and whenever you leave the range make it a point to wash both hands and face and rinse you mouth and spit. Flush your nose and blow it out. You should have two sets of clothes in you work in a range too. Your street clothes and your range clothes. The range clothes go in a bag and right into the washer ALONE. Heavy metals may remain after a wash cycle too. Go here http://www.labsafety.../Lead_24541404/ and get some soap that bonds with it and removes it. Also get some of the D-Lead hand soap as regular hand-soap does not remove lead! Yes, it will get some of it, but you need a good D-Lead hand soap and washing detergent.

Best,

JT

Edited March 16, 2010 by JThompson

[kaiserb]

All this talk about lead got me concerned, so last week when I had some blood work done I asked the doc to run my lead levels. The good news is after shooting for 3 years indoors each week and shooting several times a month out doors my lead level is 13. While that is not a great level it is pretty darn good considering the amount of "lead exposure opportunities" I have.

Part of my success is following good industrial hygiene practices:

1. No food at the reloading bench.
2. If you get a drink during reloading sessions use a straw to prevent washing lead from face into water glass.
3. Wearing nitrile gloves while sorting brass, and reloading.
4. Wash hands, arms, and face after reloading or shooting.
5. Sort and clean brass outdoors if possible.
6. Make sure all range clothes get laundered
7. Wash out dump bag and ammo bag with detergent once a month.

Edited April 16, 2010 by kaiserb

[lugnut]

You need to get tested for sleep Apnea too; headaches in the morning are one of the indicators or shallow breathing or stopping and starting. It's basically oxygen deprivation and headache can be a flag for it.

Best,

JT

I just saw this JT thanks. Yes I did get tested for sleep Apnea a while ago and tests came back negative... but I still wonder sometimes as my wife thinks I do have those symptoms during the night. However- I rarely wake up with headaches at all now!!! Freaky honestly as I used to get them ALL the time.. at least 3-4 times/week. There is NO doubt in my mind that lead significantly contributed to my headaches.

My last test 3 months ago was "down to 40" from the high of 56 and I'm due for another one within a week or so. I've been shooting alot but NO indoor shooting at all so it will be interesting.

[Steve J]

Everyone who shoots matches at indoor ranges need to understand that even the best ventilation system is designed to be effective primarily at the official firing line. It blows from behind and is sucked out in front of the firing line. Once you start walking around down range amidst the gunsmoke and the airborne dust from the bullets impacting the backstop and the dust you're kicking up from just walking around, the ventilation system can't help you.

[kaiserb]

Everyone who shoots matches at indoor ranges need to understand that even the best ventilation system is designed to be effective primarily at the official firing line. It blows from behind and is sucked out in front of the firing line. Once you start walking around down range amidst the gunsmoke and the airborne dust from the bullets impacting the backstop and the dust you're kicking up from just walking around, the ventilation system can't help you.

Very true... you really have to be aware of how the venting works at whatever indoor range you shoot at to insure maximum safety. Some indoor ranges are worse than others. The other big thing to look out for in indoor ranges is how well does the range owner maintain the exhaust system, some times the system filters get plugged or the fan motors die and this causes a major venting issue.

[G-ManBart]

The other big thing to look out for in indoor ranges is how well does the range owner maintain the exhaust system, some times the system filters get plugged or the fan motors die and this causes a major venting issue.

That's what got me....plugged exhaust openings on the roof. I'm leaving in half an hour for some blood work to see if my count has dropped any.

[beginner shooter]

Holy Crap! I never knew that this sort of thing could even be an issue. Ive always washed my hands after shooting, cleaning and reloading, but never even gave a thought to inhalation hazzards. Also, does pb absorb through the skin? Ive noticed that on leangthy reloading sessions my thumb, index and middle finger on my left hand (the one that puts the bullet on) are all black. Wow! Good thing I work in the med group here. I think Ill go down and ask one of the docs to put a pb test in for me. Then when my buddy in the lab draws my blood Im going to highly recommend he get one too (he and I both shoot a lot togeather). Someone should pin this thread as a warning for shooters who may just not know about the lead hazzard.

-Mike

[lugnut]

Holy Crap! I never knew that this sort of thing could even be an issue. Ive always washed my hands after shooting, cleaning and reloading, but never even gave a thought to inhalation hazzards. Also, does pb absorb through the skin? Ive noticed that on leangthy reloading sessions my thumb, index and middle finger on my left hand (the one that puts the bullet on) are all black. Wow! Good thing I work in the med group here. I think Ill go down and ask one of the docs to put a pb test in for me. Then when my buddy in the lab draws my blood Im going to highly recommend he get one too (he and I both shoot a lot togeather). Someone should pin this thread as a warning for shooters who may just not know about the lead hazzard.

-Mike

You will never know for sure how much lead comes from where.... Ive scoured the web and can't find anything definitive. However I'm personally convinced that the bulk comes from inhalation and correspondingly from indoor shooting. I also believe that each individual has the ability or inability to absorb lead differently.... so similar exposure doesn't mean similar lead test results.

IMO based on the reading I've done would indicate that most of the lead on your hands doesn't go into your bloodstream directly... however try keeping your hands away from your nose and lips for prolonged periods of time... get my point? Never eat with dirty hands. I also wash my hands after dry fire sessions.... LOTS of lead on your gun/mags... don't overlook the obvious.

[G-ManBart]

You will never know for sure how much lead comes from where.... Ive scoured the web and can't find anything definitive. However I'm personally convinced that the bulk comes from inhalation and correspondingly from indoor shooting. I also believe that each individual has the ability or inability to absorb lead differently.... so similar exposure doesn't mean similar lead test results.

IMO based on the reading I've done would indicate that most of the lead on your hands doesn't go into your bloodstream directly... however try keeping your hands away from your nose and lips for prolonged periods of time... get my point? Never eat with dirty hands. I also wash my hands after dry fire sessions.... LOTS of lead on your gun/mags... don't overlook the obvious.

There has been some pretty definitive testing done, but not all of it has been published. The vast majority of lead in a shooters body comes from the priming compound (lead styphnate...sp?). It's atomized and that makes it the ideal form to enter your bloodstream through your lungs. Inhalation of media dust when tumbling cases is also pretty bad. Lead coming off bullets that hit the backstop or wiping off onto you skin while reloading isn't good, but isn't nearly the threat that inhalation is. R,

[lugnut]

You will never know for sure how much lead comes from where.... Ive scoured the web and can't find anything definitive. However I'm personally convinced that the bulk comes from inhalation and correspondingly from indoor shooting. I also believe that each individual has the ability or inability to absorb lead differently.... so similar exposure doesn't mean similar lead test results.

IMO based on the reading I've done would indicate that most of the lead on your hands doesn't go into your bloodstream directly... however try keeping your hands away from your nose and lips for prolonged periods of time... get my point? Never eat with dirty hands. I also wash my hands after dry fire sessions.... LOTS of lead on your gun/mags... don't overlook the obvious.

There has been some pretty definitive testing done, but not all of it has been published. The vast majority of lead in a shooters body comes from the priming compound (lead styphnate...sp?). It's atomized and that makes it the ideal form to enter your bloodstream through your lungs. Inhalation of media dust when tumbling cases is also pretty bad. Lead coming off bullets that hit the backstop or wiping off onto you skin while reloading isn't good, but isn't nearly the threat that inhalation is. R,

I agree... but for each individual.. there is no good way of determining how much lead came from what... For example... I reload, sort brass, tumble my brass and sift it, shot indoors and outdoors, etc, etc. How would I know that x percentage of MY exposure came from indoor shooting?

Regardless- I think we can agree that "most" comes from inhalation... and that becomes more of an issue when much of your shooting is indoors. But I do know shooters that have lead levels in the 20s that don't shoot indoors at all...

[lugnut]

Here's another "theory" I have with regard to inhalation. If you shoot somewhere and afterward you clean your nose and find black boggers... IMO that means high lead. I don't notice this problem with shooting outdoors.... I've noticed it many times after several hours of indoor shooting. I also have become much more aware of the metallic taste in my mouth...