Starting To Call Shots

[imboxman1]

I now getting serious about handgun shooting. I have been reading every site available as time allows. Because of this site (and some other sites) I have started to train myself to call my shot. I have put close to 500 rounds into this training and I have a couple of questions?

1) Is it normal to call your shot and then be completly off in the opposite

direction? What am I doing wrong to be so far off?

2) It seems I have lost my tight groups. Is this normal?

3) I know I am probably like most people, but approximatly how many more rounds does it take to know you are doing it right? Some times I call 3 in a roll and then blow the next 5. I would hate to shoot 5000 rounds and find out I am doing something wrong.

Thank you in advance for your help and insight.

boxman

[vluc]

box...what is your definition of calling the shot? If it is knowing where the round will hit - based on where the sights are at when you break the shot, even if it is a miss, then you are correct. If you define it as hitting a spot you want to hit, then you are off base.

I can now call almost every shot, even a mike...I know where that round is going...good, bad or indifferent. If you are surprised where it is ending up, then you are not calling the shot.

Calling shots and tight groups do not necessarily go together, unless that is what you are trying to do.

Don't worry about how many rounds it will take, just keep doing it.

[spook]

Just reading your post, I think you might be a little too anxious to call your shots. When I notice groups are opening up, I'm usually looking at the target instead of the sights.

How many rounds it takes depends on many things. What I'm going to say next is not something I'm saying to be a PITA, but I know that if you focus on the roundcount, instead of the shooting itself (like having a roundcount 'deadline' to learn how to call your shots) that will most likely slow down the progress.

Just shoot and pay attention to what's happening....It's amazing how much information is just 'out there' to be seen, if you'll just pay attention to the shooting.

Brian says something like that in his book and that really helped me to learn how to focus and call my shots.

But in the end, you'll have to experience it for yourself....

How many rounds it will take you to experience, you will only know when it happens.

[shred]

The "Traditional" way to learn shot-calling was to take two targets, put one at 25 yards (we're talking bullseye here-- but at least make it far enough you can't easily see the holes and thus keep a sight focus), and leave the other at the shooting position. Everytime you fire a shot, you mark on the target by you where the shot went. After five or ten shots, go downrange and compare targets.

[Loves2Shoot]

It took me several tens of thousands of rounds before I got it down, and some days I still don't have it down

[L9X25]

Box,

The ability to call your shots is not something that is easy to explain or teach. One of the common problems is blinking or squinting of the eyes. Many people blink in reaction to the noise. I would highly recommend that you use double ear protection (plugs and muffs) to reduce your instinctual tendancy to blink from the noise. You might be blinking and then "seeing" the sight in a location that is nowhere near where it was when the shot broke. The only way to be sure is when you can clearly see the entire sight path from lift through return. Having someone watch your eyes while you shoot can help you confirm this possibility.

Leo

[PistolPete]

I've found that when I "try" focusing on calling my shots, I'm not calling my shots. Then after 100 or 200 hundred rounds when I forget about focusing on calling my shots I am actually "calling my shots." Sounds kinda confusing but it is so true. If you are focusing on calling your shots then your focus isn't where it should be. You are thinking instead of doing. Try thinking of what you need or want to see before and after you shoot. Focus on what you need to see on the way to the range. Then when you get to the range "do" (or at least try) without thinking and just doing.

In the Martial Arts we call this Mushin or "mindlessness." A good analogy is if you put your hand on a hot oven you quickly move it without thinking. If you had to think about your hand getting warm and then too warm that is dangerous, process this information and then make the decision to remove your hand from the hot stove you hand would be burned beyond recognition.

Sorry I went off topic but don't try so hard and don't put a limit to how many shots you need to shoot to be able to call your shots. Buy a good reloading press and put it to work. That is really the only way. Spend the time on the range and it will come.

Pete

[j1b]

Box

My breakthrough in calling shots was a pretty simple process - I only allowed two shots on target before taping.

It really forced me to interpret what I saw with what actually happened. Time consumption goes up exponentially so my actual round count decreased however the quality of my practice was pretty good.

Once you start doing this - you can start associating paper performance with what you are seeing and feeling. When we first converted to 9X25's there was zero muzzle flip - but shots were going here and there every now and again. So I did the "no more than two shots" drill and noticed that sometimes I would push the gun and because there was virtually no muzzle flip and that push would drastically impact my score on target. The realization of this did two things. It enabled me to stop doing it so often, and it made me realize that when I felt it (and I will note felt vs. seeing because the called shot would generally always be good) I needed to make up a shot, or assess the target.

For me - once I started this practice and did it religiously, the process of calling shots really started to take affect. In fact I became much more proficient very quickly.

Anyhow - thought I would add my $.02.

JB

[Loves2Shoot]

J1b,

Very well stated, it is definetly worth the extra taping time.

[shred]

Another thing we do is if there's a group of us practicing mini-stages or something similar (multiple targets, maybe some movement), is at the end of the run ask the shooter "Where were your hits on T2?" before they can go back and look at them. Mix up what target you ask about and have them do the same for you.

[benos]

Excellent posts everyone; not much to add.

And yes, trying to call you shots makes it more difficult, because typically the eyes go into "strain" mode. Instead, relax your face, (after you've learned what it feels like to not blink), and just look RIGHT AT THE SIGHT ALIGNMENT. Then, with the front sight in razor focus, simply remember where the sight alignment was on the target at the instant they began to lift. You must be calmly seeing in order to call.

And don't forget The Call to Followthrough.

be

[Luiz Francisco Ramos]

Please help with a question:

1) In Open shooting, the procedure for call the shoot, is the same? Wait the DOT to lift? Or the DOT stays on the target all the time...?

2) We see the DOT all the time, even who don´t learn yet to call shoots in iron sights?

I´m Open beginner... (because of my presbiophy Limited is hard for me...)

thanks

Ramos

[benos]

Ramos,

It's much easier to call your shots with an Open gun because the dot and the target are in focus at the same focal plane, which is wherever the target is. So, you look to the exact spot on the target you intend to hit, keep your focus there until the gun fires and the dot lifts, even if only slightly, and then REMEMBER where the last place the dot was when it lifted.

You can easily see this "place/spot" peripherally, even though you were focused on where you wanted the shot to hit because the target and dot are on the same focal plane. You do not have to "look at the dot" to see where it lifted from, unlike with iron sights.

be

[ErikW]

I shot one of the best matches of my life recently, shooting 95-99% of the points on 7 of the 8 stages, and I have no recollection of ever seeing the dot "lift" off the A zone. I think I call my Open gun shots on where the dot was when it disappeared. I just don't track it like a Limited gun's front sight.

There were a couple speciality targets where I called the shots and my brain is just a little behind the 1480 fps bullet. On one drop-turner, I had the dot on the right side of the A zone and broke the shot as the target turned its right edge back toward the back berm. I thought I might have had a Miss, at best an oblong C, yet I had the A solidly in there before it turned.

Then there was a tough transition from steel to full target with a steel-activated No-Shoot dropping onto the target. I screwed up the order and rushed off the activated steel, put the dot on the A, broke the first shot, saw the dot on the A again, and as the second shot broke I saw the no-shoot distinctly under my dot. I was 50-50 on whether I hit the no-shoot. But I hadn't.

Maybe I'm getting confused by what I see after the shot.

[shred]

I get that too. My dot zips up quickly and is hard to spot. It's much easier to see it coming back down, which can cause all sorts of problems, especially if, like me, you blinked during the zip-up portion. Try getting an Open gun and a magazine that locks the slide back and shoot some one-shot drills. That showed me a lot.

[Steve Anderson]

I learned to call shots on the plate rack.

Start on the 10 yard line and pull the trigger when you KNOW the plate's gonna fall.

Gets easy fast on the 10 yard line, gets real hard on the 25.

It also helps to do virginia count drills on steel, no makeup shots allowed, the drill is pass/fail.

Then you can progress to paper...

SA