Heavy bullet + Short barrel = Not worth it

[fastshooter03]

I tried some 69 grainers last weekend out of my 17" to see if I can get some wind/group size advantage over 50-55 grain blitzkings/ ballistic tips/ v-maxes and found out it isn't going to work for me.

The hottest load came out at 2550 fps and punching that into the ballistic software tells me it doesn't buck the wind as well as my 50 grain blitzkings at 3250 out to 300 maybe more.

I'll admit I haven't tried Varget yet as it's yielded less velocity in the past than the Vhit powders and Benchmark with the lighter bullets.

Is anyone using 69 grainers out of a 16-18" barrel?

If so, what kind of velocities are you getting?

Nick

[el pres]

68-69's did not work for me in a 16" barrel either, but more then lenth I think

it was the 1x9 twist they did not like ...

[Scout454]

2630 out of a 1 in 8, 16" barrel

2730 out of a 1 in 9, 18" barrel

Both shot sub MOA out to 300 yards on paper and minute of steel out to 500.

Same load, 25.4 Varget Remington 7 1/2's, LC brass, 2.240

[Dan Sierpina]

Are you getting 3250 out of a 17" barrel? Or, is that a load for a 24"-26" bolt gun listed in a manual? For bullets over 55 grains, higher velocities will come from stick powders over commonly used ball powders in .223. There may be exceptions of 2520 and TAC.

Try Varget, or a powder that gives top velocities and accuracy in a long barrel, it will probably give the highest velocities in the shorter barrel as well.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Dan Sierpina

[Religious Shooter]

Is anyone using 69 grainers out of a 16-18" barrel?

If so, what kind of velocities are you getting?

69 Nosler CC, 25.8 Varget, CCISR ==> 2834 FPS out of a 16/17" SS 1x8

69 SMK, 25.6 Varget, WSR ==> 2796 FPS out of a 16" 1x9

68 Hornady, 25.6 Varget, WSR ==> 2791 FPS out of a 16" 1x9

[fastshooter03]

I guess I'll have to try some Varget. It must work better than the faster powders with the heavy 69. 2800 fps would make it worth it.

Yes, with 50 grn blitzkings and 25.8 N135, it will chrono at 3250 to 3275 FPS out of my 17" with rifle length gas system and will shoot in the .5's. That is with a Broughten match barrel with the Canted-lands rifling. It's too bad the twist rate is 1x12 so I'm limited to lighter bullets.

My Dpms 17" 1x9 will not shoot that fast. I'll only get about 3175 Fps with it and the same 50 grn load.

If I win the lottery maybe I'll make another broughten barrel with a faster twist and replace my RRA receivers with some of Jim's Firebird receivers.

What kind of brass are you using to get 25.6-8 grains of Varget in? Winchester?

I was planning on using some older(small letter) winchester brass cuz the case capacity is usually higher than the LC I have. I suppose if I deburr the flashholes I can get an extra .1 grain in

Nick

[Scout454]

I've loaded 26.0 of Varget behind a 69 grain SMK in both LC and Winchester cases. The load is compressed, but Varget likes to be compressed. I went back to 25.5 with the latest lot because it shot better in the 18" and well enough in the 16.

[gm iprod]

fastshooter,

I have found that if you increase twist rate you tend to get slightly less velocity, it does vary from barrel to barrel.

But I would expect Varget or Benchmark to be the way to go. I have had great success with BLC2 as well with 69gr in 16 - 18" barrels in some rifles. i mainly use Federal 205 Match Primers or CCI BR4.

1:9 is perfect for 69gr Sierra MK regardless of barrel length. I have used them in as short as 16" (1.9" at 200Y) and as long as 24". Much more velocity in all powders with the longer barrels of course, but if you can live with what you get out of your 16" I would go with the 69gr with a leaning towards Varget.

2750fps is what most people I know that shoot 16" barrels are aiming for. ANything more is welcome, but not at the expanse of accuracy. It is much easier to crack on a couple of clicks of elevation with something that shoots sub MOA that to miss the target with something going 100fps faster.

Accuracy is WAY more important that trajectory.

[sleepercaprice1]

I'm loading 24.5 TAC in LC brass with Fed GM205's and Nosler 69 CC's. I'm getting right around 2800 (+/- 10fps) and it is very accurate. Any hotter and it starts to show pressure signs (flattened primers). I'm shooting it out of a RRA 16" SS 1/8 midlength.

[Robbie Wheaton Jr]

18" barrel 1 in 8 twist 69 gr SMK 25.5 grains Varget gives an average of 2856 for 10 shots. SD of three and an extreme spread of about 12 FPS. The load is a laser out of every gun I have shot it in.

[steel1212]

18" barrel 1 in 8 twist 69 gr SMK 25.5 grains Varget gives an average of 2856 for 10 shots. SD of three and an extreme spread of about 12 FPS. The load is a laser out of every gun I have shot it in.

I have a 20" barrel so I don't get to play but Robbie's load is a "laser" out of mine as well. I choose to use 55 MGs as most of the ranges around here are 100 and in.

Robbie, your signature made me spit my drink on my keyboard.....thanks

Edited August 18, 2008 by steel1212

[MikeFoley]

What works best out of a 7.5"? Heavy or light?

[gm iprod]

Depending on expected range. I prefer light and soft bullet.

Light and fast (relatively) will give you a higher foot pounds figure but lose it very quickly, but that is not to be an issue as if it has a 7" barrel you are unlikely to be sniping at Rabbits at 300. Soft bullets will transfer their energy more aggresively on soft skinned targets. I have tried 45gr Remington UMC on goats from a 14.5 at very short range and they all died quickly or were unable to get away and were therefore dispatched quickly with a second shot.

[fastshooter03]

I've been busy shootin the tri-gun and my account was suspended for being naughty but Here's what I did for the tri-gun:

The day before leaving I found a load WIN brass, WSR, 50 grn Bal Tip, 25.0 N133,*2.275 OAL = 3325 fps=one big hole at 100yds for 10rds. I had previously tried this load with 50 Grn blitzking bullets and it was slower even with a shorter OAL. Even though the OAl was longer than what will fit in a normal mag, the C-Products stainless mags allow for a longer load length so I used those mags.

Last year at Uspa 3-gun nationals this load with blitzkings worked for one stage and then puked on the next stage with my Broughten barrel . Same thing happened at the Tri-Gun but it puked on the team event so I only lost out on a possible plaque . I thought since the load was hotter than last year maybe it would work??? NOPE! I absolutely can't use anything faster than the approx burn rate of N135.

Interesting to note this load shot 100 fps slower in my Dpms barrel. I might have to make a faster twist broughten barrel and not cut it back past 18".

I loaded 25.0 grns Varget with a 69 and got somewhere around 2700 fps or more. I can't remember now exactly how fast but I punched it into the ballistic software and it matched the 50 for wind drift out to the max range I'll be shootin but was nowhere near the drop. The 50s are much flatter. That 69 load was really hot in my 223 chamber as well. I'm guessing a 5.56 throat would have better luck with these.

I'm sure everyone has figured out if you're going to be shootin really long range,(past 350)you should have a longer barrel(min 20") to take advantage of the heavier bullets. I don't make it to those type of 3-gun matches so I don't have to worry about it yet.

Nick

[Ron B]

I've shot several Hornady 68 gr. BTHP loads out of a 16", 1 in 9 twist barrel (carbine length gas tube) in search of the perfect formula. Here are the results using once fired military brass and WSR primers:

AA2230 23.5 gr. - 2751 fps (most accurate so far)

AA2520 25.0 gr. - 2770 fps

AA2520 25.5 gr. - 2829 fps

Varget 25.5 gr. - 2726 fps

N540 25.0 gr. - 2669 fps

IMR4895 24.3 gr - 2650 fps

[Mull]

My best load using 69 grain Sierra Matchkings out of a 16", 1-7 twist barrel is:

25.6 grains of Varget,

CCI 450 primers

OAL is 2.250".

Brass is Remington 223.

I just got a Dillon 650 which doesn't meter Varget the best, so I'm in search of a new load.

[SingleStacker45]

24.2 of varget got me 2550 and 25.0 got me 2650 out of my douglas 1/8 16". It looks like 2750 might be doable. My hornady 55's are running 2900 on 25.2 H335 so the holds look similar out to 300 yards and I can see about a half inch difference in group size at 100 between the hornady 55's and the nosler 69's.

Mule

Edited November 9, 2009 by SingleStacker45

[djeffers]

I wish I would have read this before buying 500 SMK 69gr! I have a 1:9, 16", and haven't even shot them yet. I loaded 200 with BLC2, don't remember how much powder off hand.....I guess I will have to wait and see.

[gm iprod]

djeffers,

Load them pretty close to max load and they will work well. If you are only drilling holes in paper check them at 50, 100 and 200 and look at the drop, and adjust accordingly. I suggest you zero 2" high at 100 for close on 200M zero. You should get 2700fps or so with the max load. I use a TA11F ACOG and sight it in at 100M and it is just a little under 1" lower than I was expecting at 200M with a 20" barrel, same scope and 16" barrel I would expect to be less than 2" out (ie 1MOA) at 200M with a 100M zero. Remember ACOG's are calibrated for Meters not Yards.

I have been running Benchmark recently with the 69grainers in my Rem 700 SPS Tactical 20" we are getting about 2800fps with 23.5gr, this gun is as it came out of the box, no trigger job, fitted a Trijicon 5-20 and off we went. A good freind has shot the smallest group so far at .22" 5 rounds. We are getting sub 3/4" all the time with Fiocchi factory 69gr and a little more than that but still well under 1" with the Black Hills 68gr Match. All shot at 100M.

[djeffers]

djeffers,

Load them pretty close to max load and they will work well. If you are only drilling holes in paper check them at 50, 100 and 200 and look at the drop, and adjust accordingly. I suggest you zero 2" high at 100 for close on 200M zero. You should get 2700fps or so with the max load. I use a TA11F ACOG and sight it in at 100M and it is just a little under 1" lower than I was expecting at 200M with a 20" barrel, same scope and 16" barrel I would expect to be less than 2" out (ie 1MOA) at 200M with a 100M zero. Remember ACOG's are calibrated for Meters not Yards.

I have been running Benchmark recently with the 69grainers in my Rem 700 SPS Tactical 20" we are getting about 2800fps with 23.5gr, this gun is as it came out of the box, no trigger job, fitted a Trijicon 5-20 and off we went. A good freind has shot the smallest group so far at .22" 5 rounds. We are getting sub 3/4" all the time with Fiocchi factory 69gr and a little more than that but still well under 1" with the Black Hills 68gr Match. All shot at 100M.

Good to know.

[Graham Smith]

According to the online Sierra manual, in an AR-15, the optimum accuracy load for the 69gr HPBT MatchKink is 25.3gr Varget for a velocity of 2750. No mention of barrel length or twist rate, unfortunately.

I'm going to testing 25gr this weekend with an 18" 1:8 twist and am also testing 24gr of both Varget and AA2230 for comparison.

[fastshooter03]

.....this year I have some new barrels I made from Broughten blanks in 1x8 twist. 18" and 20".

My previous data is with the DPMS Stainless bull in 17".

I will be doing some new chronoing and will post the results when it happens.

Nick

[fastshooter03]

Made it to the range today with the 20" version.

As always, these loads are safe in my rifle and may not be suitable in yours. Use your reloading manual for a starting point.

50 grn V-Max w/ 25.5 N135 was clocking 3375fps.

69 MKG W/ 23.5 X-terminator was 2850fps. ES 22 SD 8

60 Berger w/ 26.0 Varget was 2875fps???? Problem????

LC or WIN brass. WSR.

Wow, I need to get the 18" together and see the difference.

Nick

[gm iprod]

Sierra printed manual is 20" 1:7 twist, so I would guess that the online version would use the same configuration.

Hodgdon Manual show 24" barrel and 1:12 twist. I would guess that they were testing maximum pressures and velocity only or they would have had some accuracy issues. We can safely guess that they would have changed barrel twist to suit the bullet when testing for accuracy.

I was talking with a friend and he has suggested looking at Reloder-15 as well. Book data shows 26grain / 24" barrel = 3030fps for 68-70grain projectiles. They would most likely equate to 2900 in a 20" gun. I have a can and will have to take a run at it.

Many years ago a couple of guys who first ran the 223 down here for long range (and were harangued for using a pipsqueak cartridge) ran good old 748 and the 69gr Sierra, once they started winning lots it seems that the jeering receeded some. Now nearly everyone is using something small for that match. They ran 26grains flat for about 3000fps out of their 26" rifles.

[Graham Smith]

I wasn't able to get the Varget tested (don't ask) but did test the AA and was quite surprised at the results:

Barrel is a DPMS Heavy Contour Stainless 18" 1:8

55gr MG over 24gr AA2230 in mixed used brass was an average of 2940fps

69gr SMK over 24gr AA2230 in mixed used brass was an average of 2830fps

Better than I was expecting with an 18" barrel