Multi Gun Nationals

[Hank Ellis]

Yeah, I've gone over the edge. I've committed to doing the USPSA Multi Gun Nationals. It's in my back yard, only a 3 hour drive away. But I've done a grand total of one, just one, 3-gun match. I think I'm over my head.

The handgun I'm not worried about. It's the long guns. What distances are we talking about? How much slug? How much buckshot? Any 100yd slug shots? What about rifle distances? Do I need the 'big' scope for the 300yd shots? How much .... what about .... help!

I'm looking at this opportunity as a learning experience. Nothing more. My goals are (1)Not DQ and a far distant second (2)Don't place last.

So, those who have been to the MG Nats, what kind of stages do you see? Anything I can practice on to better prep me for this?

And as a side question. I shoot Production. Since Production isn't a 3-gun division what division is any classifiers thrown into? I'll be in Tactical division at the MG Nats. Are there any classifiers at the Nats for that matter?

[wgnoyes]

Generally, there aren't any classifiers at all at a USPSA nationals; rather, the match itself would scored as a classifier. This being the multigun, that probably won't happen, either, as there's no classification system set up for 3-gun. Since there is no pistol classifier stage (pretty safe guess), just take your production pistol and load the magazines up full beyond 10 rounds. As to distances and scopes and whatnot, I'm not the one to ask on that.

[Brian Payne]

HE

I will let someone else give better details as to what to expect at the Nationals. Just wanted to comment about getting in over your head.

My first 3-gun ever was the DPMS Tri-gun Challenge. The second was the 3-gun Nationals the same year. Had a blast. A great way to see some of the best shooters in the world in action. Just stay safe and have fun. Welcome to the addiction.

[GentlemanJim]

Last year most of the rifle was CQB...with one long rifle stage with paper at about 400yds.

Slug stage used clamshells at about 40 yds or less

a few swinging clays ...quite a few static clays

several good multi gun stages.

all in all it was a very fun match...you will like it

we hope to go again this year.

I have no idea what is in store this year.

Jim

[kurtm]

Is ther an application up for this match anywhere? Looks like I will be able to make it after all. KurtM

[SGDM]

No sweat Man. Get your guns and ammo and go have a good time. My first 3-Gun was Kyle Lamb's NC Tactical 3-Gun and it is down hill from there.

[Chuck Anderson]

Shouldn't be a problem. The stages will be posted a little ahead of time so you can get a better idea of what you'll need ammo wise. The flavor of MG Nats really depends on who is putting the match on and what facilities they have. It's kind of different than most of the big three gun matches that are held in the same spot every year. You really know just what to expect with those.

Best advice, make sure you three guns work. Make sure the SG works with all the ammo you're bringing, know your rifle zero out to 400 yds, and if you're going to shoot a minor pistol, get some 140mm mags for it if you can. I used to shoot my G17 with 23 round mags, worked great.

Other than that just go and have fun. If you're not in the running for National Champion, what stress should there be? Shoot it like you would any other match and don't let the fact that it is a Nationals even bother you.

[wgnoyes]

Is ther an application up for this match anywhere? Looks like I will be able to make it after all. KurtM

Multigun Nationals Form on uspsa-nationals.org

Edited July 17, 2008 by wgnoyes

[kurtm]

Thank you Bill! I will get it out as soon as I get home. KurtM

[BayouSlide]

Sounds like fun, Hank. I'd join you on the drive up to Shreveport but my daughter would probably not forgive me if I missed her wedding, which she scheduled for that weekend so as not to conflict with the Gator Classic a couple of weeks later.

[Hank Ellis]

Shouldn't be a problem. The stages will be posted a little ahead of time so you can get a better idea of what you'll need ammo wise. The flavor of MG Nats really depends on who is putting the match on and what facilities they have. It's kind of different than most of the big three gun matches that are held in the same spot every year. You really know just what to expect with those.

Best advice, make sure you three guns work. Make sure the SG works with all the ammo you're bringing, know your rifle zero out to 400 yds, and if you're going to shoot a minor pistol, get some 140mm mags for it if you can. I used to shoot my G17 with 23 round mags, worked great.

Other than that just go and have fun. If you're not in the running for National Champion, what stress should there be? Shoot it like you would any other match and don't let the fact that it is a Nationals even bother you.

Slept on it and took another look at my fandango. Since the stages are going to be posted ahead of time it will answer a lot of questions as to optics and ammo.

The SG runs and I have zero issues with it. The AR is a Clark Gator and has been flawless. The 'big' scope is zeroed for 200 and I've done easy A zone hits at 300 prone. If the stage calls for longer than that I'll figure it out then. I'll be weak on handgun (nothing new there) as I run a XD-40 and 40Minor loads. Magazine capacity is 12 rounds. I've run 10 round divisions for so long that I'm programmed to reload by 10. Don't want to change now.

There will be 5 others from the local area that are coming also so I'll have a support group to help me out. Now the issue is how to cart all this stuff. Modified baby carriage from the thrift store?

[ken hebert]

Get some practice in ahead of time at the Piney Woods Action Shooters range in Leesville. I believe they run a 3-gun match about once a month, 5 stages. Next one is next weekend, the 26th. Starts at 9am.

[busyhawk]

HE,

Remember that this is the USPSA Nationals, if possible shoot Major power factor and you won't just give points away. You will be required to Chrono both the rifle and pistol, of course the rifle will be minor (you better pray it makes at least minor) but don't start out in the hole shooting minor pistol when you are shooting a .40 anyhow. I have shot minor pistol for magazine capacity but since you want to change mags then at least shoot major...Just my 2 cents.

It would be a very cold day in USPSA when they will require you to shoot at a target over 300 yards with the rifle. Have a good time and practice shooting tight shoots with the rifle at say 3 yards with lots of hard cover or NSs...lot of those type last year anyhow!

Most long range rifle targets are on steel so bring some stout (69 Grain plus) loads for the rifle so you can get credit for you hits (and misses). Many a shooter wished he had paid extra for the heavier bullets. Shooting an A zone at 300 is great but can you shoot an eight inch steel plate at the same distance and somewhere inbetween?

Practice a round of skeet and trap as well as the most important shotgun skill...reloading! Reloading a shotgun is an art and can be practiced at home in the living room (wife permitting) whenever. A shotgun that runs is a big plus and having a gun that will work with light and heavy loads will be even better. Pattern your shot/loads and test the loads on steel to see what distances your choke/load will knock them down at. Try to remove any doubt you might have before the time comes.

Hope this helps

RLTW

SGM ® Scott Hawkins

RandRRacingonline.com

[Chuck Anderson]

It would be a very cold day in USPSA when they will require you to shoot at a target over 300 yards with the rifle. Have a good time and practice shooting tight shoots with the rifle at say 3 yards with lots of hard cover or NSs...lot of those type last year anyhow!

Well except for last year with paper targets at 400 and the year before with steel at 350ish.

[davidwiz]

The handgun I'm not worried about. It's the long guns. What distances are we talking about? How much slug? How much buckshot? Any 100yd slug shots? What about rifle distances? Do I need the 'big' scope for the 300yd shots? How much .... what about .... help!

Usually, the longest target with a slug is 50 yards. For rifle, I would know your zero/drop out to about 400 yards. What bullet weight are you using in your AR? At the longer targets, heavy steel targets are sometimes used, like the MGM flasher or the LaRue - in the past, some people have had problems knocking down those types of heavy targets with a 55gr bullet, depending on the velocity of the round. IIRC, it was people using 16" barrels that were having trouble.

[Gordo]

Get some practice in ahead of time at the Piney Woods Action Shooters range in Leesville. I believe they run a 3-gun match about once a month, 5 stages. Next one is next weekend, the 26th. Starts at 9am.

Ken, would you happen to have a contact name and number for their 3-gun matches? I'd like to try going to one.

Gordo

[Hank Ellis]

Remember that this is the USPSA Nationals, if possible shoot Major power factor and you won't just give points away. -snip-

I know what you're saying, I understand, and in principle I agree but.... I'm already putting in so many variables into this match that I'd rather shoot what I know in the handgun side. Down the road I'll look into stepping up to Major. But now is not the time.

Practice a round of skeet and trap as well as the most important shotgun skill...reloading! Reloading a shotgun is an art and can be practiced at home in the living room (wife permitting) whenever. A shotgun that runs is a big plus and having a gun that will work with light and heavy loads will be even better. Pattern your shot/loads and test the loads on steel to see what distances your choke/load will knock them down at. Try to remove any doubt you might have before the time comes.

I'm writing this as I just walked in the door from the Southwestern Zone Trap Shoot. Didn't do as well as I hoped but shot above my class in singles and didn't embarras myself too bad in handicap. I practice reloads when I putz around the Sporting Clays course. Fun to call for the pair, shoot, speed reload 2, and call for two more. Freaks out the Fudds. The 3-gun shotgun has been patterned with shot and buckshot with various chokes and shot for groups with slugs. I'm confident in the shotgun.

For rifle, I would know your zero/drop out to about 400 yards. What bullet weight are you using in your AR? At the longer targets, heavy steel targets are sometimes used, like the MGM flasher or the LaRue - in the past, some people have had problems knocking down those types of heavy targets with a 55gr bullet, depending on the velocity of the round. IIRC, it was people using 16" barrels that were having trouble.

The Gator is a 1/9 twist in a 20" barrel. My accuracy load is using Hornady 52gr A-Max. I also have 55s on hand that I need to work up a load for. All else fails I'll use 178pf factory ammo with a 55gr bullet that has worked OK before.

[BayouSlide]

Get some practice in ahead of time at the Piney Woods Action Shooters range in Leesville. I believe they run a 3-gun match about once a month, 5 stages. Next one is next weekend, the 26th. Starts at 9am.

Ken, would you happen to have a contact name and number for their 3-gun matches? I'd like to try going to one.

Gordo

Great minds think alike, but you post faster than me

I was thinking the same thing.

Curtis

[Gordo]

Get some practice in ahead of time at the Piney Woods Action Shooters range in Leesville. I believe they run a 3-gun match about once a month, 5 stages. Next one is next weekend, the 26th. Starts at 9am.

Ken, would you happen to have a contact name and number for their 3-gun matches? I'd like to try going to one.

Gordo

Great minds think alike, but you post faster than me

I was thinking the same thing.

Curtis

Is this the same Curtis who lay waste to multiple semi auto shotgunners at my last man-on-man shotgun shoot-off at EAPS with his pump gun...???

[LadyinBlue]

Is ther an application up for this match anywhere? Looks like I will be able to make it after all. KurtM

Hey Kurt...I'm so glad to see you're up and running. How's the back?

[ccur]

make sure to chrono your 52 gr loads...they have to make minor or all your rifle stages are thrown out..more than one person has failed to make minor with light bullets

Cheryl

[Hank Ellis]

make sure to chrono your 52 gr loads...they have to make minor or all your rifle stages are thrown out..more than one person has failed to make minor with light bullets

Cheryl

My 52 A-Max load chrono'd at 3025 for a 157PF. Not an issue. Lowest chrono'd was 154PF so I'm good to go more or less. May add a tenth or two for insurance.

Took a look at the stages posted. I've really got to focus on the abandon gun thing. I'm thinking shoot to slidelock and leave it and let the scores be what they be in most cases. The rifle standards stage is not fun but I'll take what I can take and walk away. The rest look do-able.

There's now all kinds of little details that I don't know. Like can you change from a 3 power scope to a 16 power scope in the safe area. Like can you change chokes in the scatttergun. When and were. Like do I need to drop the mag on an empty gun when I abandon it.

Gezz, this is going to be fun.

[ShooterSteve]

Hank, I would listen to BusyHawk about the pistol power factor. You still have a couple months, and bumping up a load a couple grains to make major is usually no problem. If you are going to spend big money to go to a national level match, at least take the free points. No you will not be able to switch scopes. Stay with the smaller power. If you try to run CQB with a 16 power you will be cross eyed when you are done and again will be giving free points away. Do take a plethera of chokes, and different shot, and you can look at each stage individually and make decisions based on your platform. Most of the time you don't have to drop a mag to leave a pistol, but each stage is different, and the RO will make it clear to everyone what is expected on that stage. Have fun and watch your wallet! No one will steal it, but this is the worst junkie sport you can jump into!

[Hank Ellis]

Thanks for the help steve. Looking at the rules I kinda figured I couldn't switch optics but had to ask. The Weaver V3 will be the optic for this match. Even more reason to give up on the 300yd portion of the standards stage. I just ain't there yet.

I have been thinking about the major vs minor issue on handgun. The XD-40 has 12 round mags and the gun is tuned for minor loads. Lightened slide, spring changes, etc. I really don't want to mess with it and take the chance on screwing up the combination. Another option is that I've still got the 1911 and 10 round mags in the safe from when I played in L-10. The stages look like having a hi-cap isn't going to make that big a difference. Hmmm. Maybe I ought to drag out the old single stack and see if I can still run it.

Yeah, I bleeding money like crazy to get ready for this. But hey, I haven't seen an armored car in a funeral procession yet.