JPT Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I have decided to try my hand at this sport. I am new to the forum and will be taking my first handgun training next week. I have never shot, but i am somewhat familiar with handguns asd my dad and all my uncles were LEO. From reading this forum, it is clear that this is an enthusiast sport. Many people modify their handguns -trigger work and sighte seem to be the most common. But, I wonder how much of this is really necessary and how much is just bling. An analogy I can may is to racing wheels for a bike - a pair of 2,500 dollar wheels will save you only about 5 minutes in a 3-hour race. That does not really matter for a newbie. And, frankly, they look pretty idiotic coming in last place with their $5,000 bike. What do you recommend to get started? Should I just buy something that fits my hand and is relatively cheap? (Glock 17, M&P 9mm). If so, are there any modifications that are basically essential. Or does it make sense to just buy a gun that I actually like right now (SP-01, P226 for example). If it matters, I would prefer to buy a gun that I will be happy with for a long time rather than buy the newest, hottest thing. Does it make sense to just shoot one of these stock guns for now and only invest more $ once I know the ropes? Sorry, lots of questions. But you get the idea. My apologies if I sound like an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Welcome to the forums JPT. The Glock 17 or CZ SP01 out of the box will do just fine to shoot Production Division. You will also need a good belt and holster and 5 or 6 magazines and mag pouches. If you already have a pistol use that to start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting for M Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) Money is probably the biggest factor in what to get to start. What you like/what you want to do is another pretty important one. If your rich, and like open, why not. If money is an issue, like most of us, production is a great place to start, also keep in mind limited 10, and Single Stack. If money is really tight a Glock might be your best bet. A glock 17, 34 or 35 is a great place to start. Do you reload? If you do a glock 35 might not be a bad idea, you can load light for production for now then trick it out and shoot limited/limited 10 later. The biggest problem a lot of shooters have with Glocks is the grip angle, if you are used to shooting another gun, or plan on switching back and forth, an XD or M&P might be a better bet. An equally cheap place to start might be Single Stack, Taurus is making one for about $500 or less if you know where to look, they aren't bad at all. No matter what you get you need to think of the other stuf you'll need: -Magazines at least 5 or 6 esp. for SS, L10 or Production -Glasses -Ammo -Hearing protection -ammo -holster, the Blade Tech DOH is very popular, but an Uncle Mikes will work fine -ammo -magazine pouches, at least four for production/L10, whatever you can use, the Blackhawk CQC pouches are pretty decent -ammo -Belt, CR speed or the Safariland competition is great, but a regular heavy belt will work -Desire to have fun -a copy of the USPSA rule book, the blue one -oh yeah and more ammo If you have a gun, use what you have for now. See what class you might like after your first couple matches. You really can get into this whole thing for well under $1K, but you can also spend as much as you have. Your example about the Bike is absolutely correct. When you are ready for a modificaion you will probably know where to start. If you are going to do anything to whatever gun you choose the best place to start is probably going to be sights and trigger work, again that depends on what you buy The CZ SP01 has good sights, and the triggers are decent as well from what I understand. Welcome to that addiction, have fun! Jason Edited June 9, 2008 by shooting for M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineshootah Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Or does it make sense to just buy a gun that I actually like right now (SP-01, P226 for example). If it matters, I would prefer to buy a gun that I will be happy with for a long time rather than buy the newest, hottest thing. Head over to uspsa.org and check out the different classes that you can shoot in. This will help you decide what you are going to spend your money on. Being new to shooting as well as USPSA shooting events, I would suggest holding off on anything past the following: Gun holster firm belt eye /ear protection targets Spend the money on AMMO if you do not reload, or components for ammo if you do. Right now, it sounds like you need to shoot. Spend the money developing some of the base skills you learned in the class - trigger control, sight picture, how to clear a malfunction safely, etc. Mag pouches, race holsters, etc etc etc will come later, once you have shot in a match or two. Welcome to the addiction... we have support meetings every Friday up here in Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveknapp Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) JPT, I have a lot of fun with a stock M&P9 in production. I'm far from competitive, and pretty new at this. I choose the M&P9 because of out a handful of guns I rented (G34, P226, M&P, XD) I seemed to shoot best with the M&P and the P226. The M&P's cost including the 2 free mag deal, made it a no-brainer. If you do go M&P I would suggest trying to find one without the mag safety. Not a deal breaker, but makes the "unload/show clear/hammer down" part a bit easier as you don't need to put an empty mag into the gun to get the "click" most ROs are looking for. To use your motorcycle analogy, for me this is like track days. Some fun, a will to be a better rider/shooter, tons of fun regardless of my lap times/score, and frustrating when I don't meet my own goals. But neither are a run for the championship. Both require some solid basics. Gear, a solid bike, and good tires for the track. Gear, a reliable gun, and ammo for the USPSA. Oh, and in both areas there is some emotional factor in there as well when choosing things, I won't deny it. But neither require the latest greatest to have fun, nor to see improvement in yourself. Edited June 9, 2008 by steveknapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 JPT, welcome. Some of the previous posts are pointing you toward USPSA and that is a good thing! Also have a look at IDPA.com for another/additional choice. Make sure you check out both sets of rules. Ask questions and make sure you understand the answers. Contact both organizations HQ's for help. I have not checked out USPSA for a forum but I know IDPA (non official) has one. Both have "Club Locator" functions. Use them to find a club(s) to visit. Hopefully there are at least one or two of each. Visit on match day (make sure you take eye and ear protection which are required even for visitors! SAFETY is very IMPORTANT!). Ask a lot of questions....because the only dumb question is one not asked! Also, visit on practice night(s). Ask a lot of questions. Check out equipment. Ask a lot of questions. Visit here...ask a lot of questions. Do not go out and buy right away unless you are sure of what you want and have hit the lottery recently. When you do make you decision check here for opinions (we all have one or more). Read the reloading threads...you will probably want to start reloading soon unless you hit the lottery recently...ask a lot of questions about reloading - fun and not difficult! When you do make you decision be prepared to practice, practice, practice.......Check out some of the books and videos available. Good Luck, Richard PS: I got hooked on USPSA 25+ years ago and IDPA for almost as long as they have been around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Welcome to the forum. Get to a match or two and observe. More can be gleamed there than anywhere. We always welcome new people to our clubs and matches. Speak to someone in the stat house about who you might tag along with. Or, just ask shooters who are not involved preping and are relaxing questions. All of us here want you to have a great start in the game. We only get to do that once and it's VERY important. Might be best to show up toward the end of a match. Most of the die-hards are still there lying to one another. If you volunteer to help tear down you might get your chance to use a game gun or two. This is when the "illness" is transmitted Gun??? Who knows. Like cars, a personal preference. Shoot (rent/barrow) the ones you observe at matches, you'll know. Jim M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 All you need is a good moonclip revolver, ammo, all the safety gear and a thick skin Whatever you decide on as a firearm, Post #3 here lists most of the needed supplies but add Ammo to the list Welcome to the addiction. You will find a great group at your local club I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveknapp Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 JPT, feel free drop me a note if you're heading to any matches that are nearby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPT Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Thanks for the offer. And thanks to everyone who has responded. I hope all people in this sport are as welcoming. But, I'm pretty intimidated at this point. I don't know if I will go to any matches yet, or just get comfortable with shooting. I really have no idea what i'm doing and i am trying to learn by reading forums like this and other sites. I have never shot a handgun before - but, I'll be at my first training session tomorrow morning. So, I don't just have to learn the various rules, and the culture, but i have to learn safethy and how to shoot. We'll see. But, I know that for what it costs to rent a gun, I'll want to buy one relatively soon. I just want to make a solid choice. John JPT, feel free drop me a note if you're heading to any matches that are nearby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) I don't know if I will go to any matches yet, or just get comfortable with shooting. Do both. Go to some matches as an observer and see what folks are shooting in Production. Odds are it will be a 9mm since that is the least expensive to shoot and has no penalty in production. If you know any LEO's, ask them about sources for used LE guns. You can often find a used Glock 17 to start off with and just shoot the crap out of it till it falls to pieces (or until you pass it on to the next beginner). Ammo prices are still outrageous but you can find bargains on Winchester white box from time to time. CCI Blazer is also a good ammo to start with as it is quite consistent even if it is lower price. Once you really get into this, you will want to try your hand at reloading. You will find that cuts the cost of shooting quite a bit until you decide to upscale your cheap starting press (probably a Lee turret) to a Dillion. Then you will have to shoot for another couple years to make up the difference to pay off the press. Best advice - spend your money wisely. Buy inexpensive but not cheap. Know that whatever you are shooting now will be replaced in a couple years, so don't rush out and put down $2,500 on a startup gun and gear. Get to know others in the sport and buy what they are replacing (a mistake I made was to buy new when I started). Edited June 9, 2008 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmwater Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 JPT, Welcome, and enjoy your training session tomorrow. Shoot anything you might be interested in and ask a lot of questions. Don't rush your decision. Just because your instructor loves 1911s or Glocks doesn't mean that is the gun for you. I am a Glocker originally by choice, and now to maintain continuity in training (OK, even if I was starting over I would still choose Glock). That being said the M & P has a great feel, good signts from the factory and a lot to offer........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 JPT Welcome to the forum...and the sport Dont discount a 1911...its where it all started With single stack shooters on the rise ..its a great place to be And every thing you learn with a 1911...will transfer directly to limited...limited 10...and ultimately to OPEN Just have FUN!!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveknapp Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 JPT, how far is McMiller/Eagle, WI from you? They don't do matches, but it's a really nice range. You might also call Schultz's and see if they have any plans for another "Intro to Practical shooting" match. http://www.schultzgunclub.com/ Also a club like CKCC in Bristol was a great first practical shoot experience. Very friendly and low key. I'm told Pine Tree in Rockford does a similar practice match on Thursdays, which might be closer? FWIW, before I got my 9mm I bought a used Ruger 22/45, an inexpensive 22LR pistol. It's a blast to shoot, and with ammo being so cheap for 22LR (1/10th what 9mm goes for), a great platform to learn. I still break it out at the range just for fun. Oh, also look at the total gear cost. For example, this is the belt I use. I know it's a cheap knock off of the wilderness belt. But it holds my holster and my pants up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Welcome to the forums! Go to a few local matches and just watch. That's how I got started in USPSA a few years ago. Saw a match, got curious, asked questions. Friendliest bunch I ever met. If there are any steel challenge type club matches in your area they are a great place to start on the competition trail. You can shoot a 22 if you want, you get that adrenaline rush of shooting against the clock, but you don't have to run and do mag changes. Well--maybe no mag changes. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuzinvinny Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Welcome. Open17 took the words right out of my mouth. Thusfar I've only participated in 2 USPSA matches, but the folks are amoung the friendliest around. I have been shooting handguns for quite a number of years but never competitively. A little over a year ago I joined a steel plate league, this year I decided I wanted to compete in either USPSA or IDPA in the off weeks of the steel league. So I tried my hand at USPSA at the beginning of May, and can proudly report that I'm hooked. As Open17 noted, the steel challange type shooting helps you build a few fundimentals, safety, drawing from a holster, and accuracy, while shooting from a stationary position. The movement, mag changes, and strategy required in USPSA, take the steel challange skills to the next level. But most importantly get out and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 If so, are there any modifications that are basically essential. Trigger work is the most common modification. I know very few people who have not had any trigger work done. It comes in as the number "must have". Grip tape is another must have in my opinion. Sights come in in the third place. For playing in production I do not know if you can do any better than a Glock if you are on a budget. A 3.5lb LWD connector, wolf striker spring and some polishing compound is all you need for a pretty decent trigger - total cost less than $25. Add TrueGrip tape for $30 (you get 3 sets so it will last you a long time). At about $55 over the cost of the basic gun you are not surrendering much in terms of an advantage to anyone. Down the line you can replace the sights . You can also put some more money into the trigger at a later point - either by doing your own work or by getting one of "drop in" kits available. You may also end up replacing the recoil spring and guide rod eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Once you really get into this, you will want to try your hand at reloading. You will find that cuts the cost of shooting quite a bit until you decide to upscale your cheap starting press (probably a Lee turret) to a Dillion. Then you will have to shoot for another couple years to make up the difference to pay off the press. That is exactly what I ended up doing. Which is why it is probably just better to get a Dillon to begin with and save the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) JPT- Your comparison with cycling is telling. I cannot count the number of people I regularly see with their $3k carbon bikes who can't ride 15 miles at pace. Also, I've seen plenty of others who are serious about cycling, put in the necessary effort in time and training, and who ride their $1000 steel hoopdie and kick ass. In my mind, it is clear who is more impressive. In shooting, I've seen a lot of big spenders, but far fewer great shooters. This sport -- and this website in particular -- attracts purists. Anyway, my $.02: get a used G17 - $400; some extra mags - $80; a blade-tech or comptac holster and cr belt - $100, and you're good to go. Buy a case or two of 9mm WWB, collect your brass and start saving for a Dillon 650 immediately. Buy your Dillon from Mr. Enos. You will realize the benefits -- both financially and in performance -- as soon as you start reloading; especially in the current economy. That equipment will take you to GM in production, if you can discipline yourself to do what it takes to succeed in the sport. It is not about equipment, it is all about effort. If you decide the sport is not for you, you will be able to sell all of the foregoing, right here on this site, for little or no loss. What other enjoyable activity has that type of guarantee on investment? But, beware, if you fall into this sport's seduction, it can get spendy, especially with the current price of bullets. Also, I've met the best people -- categorically -- in this sport. Cheers. -br Edited June 10, 2008 by joker22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I do not know how it is in the USA but here in South Africa I would have advised you to just get to a shooting range and make friends. Over here most of us have spare guns and is glad to have a new shooter shoot is for a while. It is only by actually competing that you learn where your interest lies. Shoot a friends gun for a while and then jump in and buy one. BTW, It is better to spend your money on ammunition and practice than try and "buy a solution". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPT Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thanks everyone, I had a blast today at my training session. Then I stuck around and burned 150 rounds in practice. I can see that i will like this. John I have decided to try my hand at this sport. I am new to the forum and will be taking my first handgun training next week. I have never shot, but i am somewhat familiar with handguns asd my dad and all my uncles were LEO.From reading this forum, it is clear that this is an enthusiast sport. Many people modify their handguns -trigger work and sighte seem to be the most common. But, I wonder how much of this is really necessary and how much is just bling. An analogy I can may is to racing wheels for a bike - a pair of 2,500 dollar wheels will save you only about 5 minutes in a 3-hour race. That does not really matter for a newbie. And, frankly, they look pretty idiotic coming in last place with their $5,000 bike. What do you recommend to get started? Should I just buy something that fits my hand and is relatively cheap? (Glock 17, M&P 9mm). If so, are there any modifications that are basically essential. Or does it make sense to just buy a gun that I actually like right now (SP-01, P226 for example). If it matters, I would prefer to buy a gun that I will be happy with for a long time rather than buy the newest, hottest thing. Does it make sense to just shoot one of these stock guns for now and only invest more $ once I know the ropes? Sorry, lots of questions. But you get the idea. My apologies if I sound like an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 SEE, WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I started with a 92fs and a hand-sewn holster and mag pouches. I can't really say that the equipment was holding me back. For that matter, it probably wouldn't be holding me back now, at A class. Maybe a nicer trigger, but in general there is so much to learn about pulling a trigger at speed, the equipment is secondary for a long time. Get Burkett's first 3 DVDs, Brian's book, and as much ammo as you can afford. Also, as soon as you think about getting serious, get a .22 conversion for your gun. Trigger time is what you need right now. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litman252 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, as soon as you think about getting serious, get a .22 conversion for your gun. Trigger time is what you need right now.H. They do have that for the CZ as well don't forget that part. Pine Tree on a Thursday is great, people and courses. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 how many bells and whistles for a newbie? 6 SharonAnne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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