CHA-LEE Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Ben> Here is a question for you…… When I move from box to box or position to position I tend to “Stand Up” a little as I settle into the shooting position. I don’t wait to stand up and then start shooting. I will start shooting as soon as I enter the box and be standing up as I am shooting. It doesn’t seem to hinder my accuracy or time doing this either. The times that I have tried to stay low after entering the box makes it more of a jarring stop, so I think I am using the “Stand Up” motion to soak up some of my momentum as I enter the box. Then when I want to leave a shooting position I tend to fall out of it in the direction I want to go and once my last shot breaks my weight is going in the direction I need to go anyway so its that much easier to get going fast as I exit the position. I guess my question is this, is it really “Bad” to stand up a little while entering a shooting position if you are still able to get shooting ASAP and also promote the leaving of the shooting position by falling out of the “Standing Up” position? Below is a Video of an example of me standing up while shooting as I enter a box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 In theory it is bad. It is bad to do a lot of things (theoretically). I am sure you can find a top shooter that stands up a bit coming into position (I am thinking of a few right now). My take is this. I feel that I need to improve my movement skills. So, I will study movement. I will learn the theory and the reasoning behind it and try to implement that during my movement training. I think that the study of technique through practice will yield as much or more then the actual application of the technique. Does that make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Ben> Makes sense to me. There is nothing better then testing each way out and then going with works best for you. I guess I have been going with what feels "Natural" as that is what I currently feel most confident with in the heat of the moment. But if there is one thing that I have learned from shooting is that being uncomfortable with doing things is not something you should shy away from. Just because something feels "Strange" does not mean that it is wrong. I will do some more testing with this in my own practice to see if I can break through some barriers or at least experience something new and interesting. Thank you for your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 My 2 cents. The worst thing about standing up in a shooting position is that when you stand up you lose as much as 50% of your aggresiveness. For me that translates to slower shots with weaker follow-through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 My 2 cents.The worst thing about standing up in a shooting position is that when you stand up you lose as much as 50% of your aggresiveness. For me that translates to slower shots with weaker follow-through. Aggresiveness is a big theme for me in movement as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 I went out and shot “lazy man standards” again today. Standing in the box looking this one over makes my scrot tighten up. It is that crazy. That classifier is tough to shoot, and the HHF is so insane it just makes me want to scream. I can see the path to getting a 100% on it, but it is going to take a LOT of work. You hardcore dudes should really set this one up and have a run at it. You wont regret it. (or you will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatMeerkats Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hey Ben, I just saw that you're shooting Area 3... can I squad with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Hey Ben, I just saw that you're shooting Area 3... can I squad with you? sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Shooting Lazy Man's Standards is the training equivalent of eating a tall glass full of raw eggs. That is one of the first classifiers I ever shot...back in the end of the year 2000...when I just joined and had made (or was making) D-class. I scored something like 7% nationally on that one. I have never seen it again. FWIW...it may have a make-believe HHF: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...#39;s+Standards It ought to be good practice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Shooting Lazy Man's Standards is the training equivalent of eating a tall glass full of raw eggs. That is one of the first classifiers I ever shot...back in the end of the year 2000...when I just joined and had made (or was making) D-class. I scored something like 7% nationally on that one. I have never seen it again. FWIW...it may have a make-believe HHF: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...#39;s+Standards It ought to be good practice, though. Flex, The HHF on Lazy man is F$*#ed up big time. It is somewhere between 6.49 and 6.51 as near as I can tell. My best ever awesome rocking ass kickin run on it is only a 6 factor. That is nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Shooting Lazy Man's Standards is the training equivalent of eating a tall glass full of raw eggs. That is one of the first classifiers I ever shot...back in the end of the year 2000...when I just joined and had made (or was making) D-class. I scored something like 7% nationally on that one. I have never seen it again. FWIW...it may have a make-believe HHF: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...#39;s+Standards It ought to be good practice, though. I got a 4% a couple of years ago shooting SS. I don't really remember it, but I think I shot some, took a nap, did some reloads, blah, blah,blah. Life is better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 On to week 3 of the movement improvement project: I am starting to see a setup here and there that I actually like. There is one on the video that is decent. In another few weeks I am looking for good setups in a position to be the exception and not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 On to week 3 of the movement improvement project: I am starting to see a setup here and there that I actually like. There is one on the video that is decent. In another few weeks I am looking for good setups in a position to be the exception and not the rule. I think you mean the rule rather than the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 On to week 3 of the movement improvement project: I am starting to see a setup here and there that I actually like. There is one on the video that is decent. In another few weeks I am looking for good setups in a position to be the exception and not the rule. I think you mean the rule rather than the exception. could be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I am starting to see a setup here and there that I actually like. Lemme guess: The second one (at 0:15) where you fire your first shot a hair before you set down the trailing foot? If that shot was well-aimed, you have something there that I'd love to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ben> Are you exploring movement from the second shooting position to a third? It seems like staying low for the second position would reap the most benefit by being able to accelerate out of that position better for the next position. Also, with most stages having movement being forward or diagonal wouldn’t it be more effective to practice those conditions verses straight lateral movement? I am not saying I know anything more than you or can move better than you. I am just wondering why you would focus your movement practice in conditions that may not be optimal for most stage designs that have you hauling ass from one position to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ben> Are you exploring movement from the second shooting position to a third? It seems like staying low for the second position would reap the most benefit by being able to accelerate out of that position better for the next position. Also, with most stages having movement being forward or diagonal wouldn’t it be more effective to practice those conditions verses straight lateral movement? I am not saying I know anything more than you or can move better than you. I am just wondering why you would focus your movement practice in conditions that may not be optimal for most stage designs that have you hauling ass from one position to another. This movement drill that I am posting is a benchmark drill. I am setting it up the same way every single time to track changes. It is only about 1/5 of the actual training that I am doing. That may be some cause for confusion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Not happy with this: My shooting is getting to be more aggressive... but I am not terribly happy with the setups. They will get there. I set my trigger heavier and am using high recoil loads for practice right now. I like making things just a little bit more uncomfortable for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 My shooting is getting to be more aggressive... but I am not terribly happy with the setups. They will get there. I find it tricky to be aggressive and smooth at the same time. I am of the mind that smooth is the more important aspect. (Maybe favor aggressive when leaving a position and smooth when entering.) What I always need to remind myself of is to have "light feet" when entering a position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Smooth is definitely critical while entering, but it's also critical to be aggressive in the position after you enter. A lot of shooters I see enter smooth and make an effort to stay smooth when it's time to shoot and lose any aggresiveness they had, which is a loser for many reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 My shooting is getting to be more aggressive... but I am not terribly happy with the setups. They will get there. I find it tricky to be aggressive and smooth at the same time. Yeah that is the trick... Training rolls on. I got under 6 on this drill finally.... Very on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ben, I have been working on movement with a drill kind of like yours. What I thought was interesting is how you change your exits from the boxes. Did you mean to do that of do you not worry about the way you leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ben, I have been working on movement with a drill kind of like yours. What I thought was interesting is how you change your exits from the boxes. Did you mean to do that of do you not worry about the way you leave? I plan every exit and change it up based on the situaion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have made a concious effort to try and stay off the forums for a couple weeks. I wanted to really focus on my practice. Lately I haven't felt too good about how well I am shooting, but I have been shooting really tough drills and trying to shoot them as aggressively as I can. I am now sitting in a hotel in Nebraska, and I have area 3 tomorrow. I ran into Dave S and we are going to try to squad together. That may or may not happen, we will see. The setup looks good, and the match looks like it has lots of movement and lots of aiming. The weather looks awesome. I screwed up my right hand last week working out, and it hurts, but it wont affect my shooting I dont think. I am going to learn a lot tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hopefully your hand is one of those injuries we've all had: Worry about it on the way to the range, and then once you've finished for the day... You realize it's a little sore from all of the rounds you just fired without thinking about it. Good luck. Bring back some kickass "Sevigny vs Stoeger" footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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