politegunner Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I'm interested in developing a new full power load for my .40S&W pistols. The Ramshot Silhouette load I'm using now is really gumming up the cases with residue. Other wise it's a great load, giving me about 990fps with a 165gr MGB jhp. That's from a g22 with a KKM barrel and about as hard as I want to push things, considering it's my general training/practice load and gets loaded into recycled cases. If anybody out there is running full power (or close enough!) loads in their .40S&W pistols, I'd love to hear what powders you're running, especially if it's relatively "clean". Thanks. Wyley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I'm interested in developing a new full power load for my .40S&W pistols. The Ramshot Silhouette load I'm using now is really gumming up the cases with residue. Other wise it's a great load, giving me about 990fps with a 165gr MGB jhp. That's from a g22 with a KKM barrel and about as hard as I want to push things, considering it's my general training/practice load and gets loaded into recycled cases. If anybody out there is running full power (or close enough!) loads in their .40S&W pistols, I'd love to hear what powders you're running, especially if it's relatively "clean". Thanks.Wyley Hello Wyley, Sil is a slow burning powder. If you don't push it enough, it wont burn completely and leave residue behind. Your load, 990 fps with 165gr, does not even make major. It is, probably, below the minimum recommended for that powder. http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadguide/Ramshot_V4.2.2.pdf You can push that powder a lot more and you will get a great load. Unfortunately, Ramshot does not provide a load for the 165 JHP, but I am sure you can push it to around 1115 or so using Sil. I am sure someone else would have more accurate information for you. I also recommend calling Ramshot, they are very helpful over the phone. Shay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Hello Wyley, I shoot a 40. loaded with 5.7gr v.v.3n37 under a 180 or 185gr bullet & get what I would consider full power. The velocity from my 35 is about 935fps so that gives me quite a bit more "full power" than what you are shooting. I find it a very clean, & a very consistent load both in recoil & in velocity. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I'm interested in developing a new full power load for my .40S&W pistols..... If anybody out there is running full power (or close enough!) loads in their .40S&W pistols, I'd love to hear what powders you're running, especially if it's relatively "clean". Thanks.Wyley Yup, dude, you're looking for "MAJOR" power loads. We don't really use the term "full power" as it is non-specific. Major is an objective measurement, and what most people would consider "close enough to full power". Do a search on here. What you'll find is most folks prefer the feel of a quicker powder (VV N320, Tightgroup etc) and they tend to burn more completely in short barrels and those two mentioned are among the cleanest. A load making 1000fps with Tightgroup will be SOFTER and CLEANER, and likely more accurate than the one your running now. Good luck and welcome to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politegunner Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) Ahhh, this may turn out to be very groovy! I've been blundering along all this time thinking that slower powders were the way to go for full power..ah, that is "major", loads. My Silhouette load is right at the top, using some creative extrapolation (and a call to RamShot), especially when considering that it's going into recycled brass. I'm loading to an OAL of 1.125", which spikes up the pressure some over their data. But I'm thinking yeah, too much bulk, not enough complete burn. So, are these fast powder loads consistent as well as "clean"? I'm not real keen on something that's all over the place with wild fps deviation. My guess is that yes they are, as they're burning real quick, the pressures up there, and so they run fairly even. Yeah, I know, with the zany mix of brass my training/practice loads have, there's gonna be a spread. But say I'm using all once fired Starline (or whatever)...maybe a 20fps sd? And oh yeah, when you guys are talking "major", you mean the "new major", right? Not the old manly one I used to think of as "major".... Anyway, thanks mucho for what's been posted so far. Keep it coming and don't be gentle. A swift kick in the pants every now and again helps me calibrate the C17H19NO3 level... Edited May 13, 2008 by politegunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Ahhh, this may turn out to be very groovy! I've been blundering along all this time thinking that slower powders were the way to go for full power..ah, that is "major", loads. My Silhouette load is right at the top, using some creative extrapolation (and a call to RamShot), especially when considering that it's going into recycled brass. I'm loading to an OAL of 1.125", which spikes up the pressure some over their data. But I'm thinking yeah, too much bulk, not enough complete burn. So, are these fast powder loads consistent as well as "clean"? I'm not real keen on something that's all over the place with wild fps deviation. My guess is that yes they are, as they're burning real quick, the pressures up there, and so they run fairly even. Yeah, I know, with the zany mix of brass my training/practice loads have, there's gonna be a spread. But say I'm using all once fired Starline (or whatever)...maybe a 20fps sd? And oh yeah, when you guys are talking "major", you mean the "new major", right? Not the old manly one I used to think of as "major".... Anyway, thanks mucho for what's been posted so far. Keep it coming and don't be gentle. A swift kick in the pants every now and again helps me calibrate the C17H19NO3 level... Yep, now you're getting the gist of the difference. Sure, if you want to get a 200gr bullet to max velocity you'll have to go with something a little bit slower, but for 165gr bullets you should be able to easily get 1000fps (maybe even 1100 with some combos) out of a relatively fast powder like Titegroup, VV N320, Clays, WST, 231 etc. The faster powders are going to be even more consistent because they're going to get an even burn all the time. With once-fired SL cases, Zero bullets and N320 powder I've gotten an SD as low as 5. Like DP said, they'll actually shoot softer than what you're using now....less powder creates less jet effect out the barrel and the burn impulse is over with quicker. Try it, you'll like it....lots of great info if you use the search function. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 For mixed brass of unknown quality and full power loads look no further than Power Pistol from Alliant. It is clean, very consistent, accurate, and provides a margin of safety in 40 that is unmatched. By safety margin I mean tolerance of heavy charges, setback, bad brass, etc. 165's at 1200 and 135's at 1500 are no problem in factory Glock barrels. Alliant has load data on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 4.7gr?TiteGroup under a 180gr CMJ. PF = 177 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 try power pistol..it will put hair on your chest. harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) In brand matched brass, the v.v.3n37 has given me single digit SD results. MLM Edited May 13, 2008 by mlmiller1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politegunner Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 That's a real big NEGATIVE on using PowerPistol! I tired it when it first came out...until I used the load during a low light exercise. They didn't throw me out of the class, but it was close. Fuggitaboutit! Anyway, after doing a search here, I'm leaning towards N320. It's sounding like Titegroup is a little too hinky concerning pressure spikes into the k-b zone. Before Silhouette I was running N340 which was working just fine, at least in comparison to Silhouette. Thanks again for the the input! Wyley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politegunner Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Well, we had several jams with the first run of N320. Failures to feed (bullet nose into top of barrel hood-looks like short stroke) in both the XD40 and the G23. Load was 5.3gr with a MBG 165 jhp @ 1.125" OAL in once fired Rem cases. Just to confirm I tried a batch with mix headstamp stamp a couple of days later. Same malf. We were getting about 980fps so it seems odd that the load wasn't cycling reliably. Maybe N320 needs higher charges to keep the pressure up long enough to cycle our "duty style" guns? It did seem to be a cleaner burning load, but that's not important enough if it's not going to run the gun! Note: the MGB 165 @ 1.125" has run perfectly for me for years using Silhouette, new brass or old. The ONLY change was using N320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 180gr MG JHP 4.8 gr Titegroup 1.17-1.20" COL Fed Small Mag primer (non-mag also work nice) 172-180PF depending on temperature (same load from same batch, different days, way different values) Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politegunner Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) UW Mitch: Another Brother from Fungus Corners and the NWPPA! I'm putting my loads together with recycled (!) brass and even though it's going thru a KKM tube, I still don't like it THAT hot. 975fps is plenty from the little g23 for the IDPA game and my training/practice rounds in general. My main puzzle now is why a 40S&W load with a 165jhp going 980 doesn't cycle. Friggin' weird. Tomorrow I'm trying out a N340 load, but, well, there I am, once again back to a "slow" powder. Edited June 11, 2008 by politegunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 You might want to try Winchester 231 - it's about the burn speed you're looking for. Another oldie-but-goodie is Unique; the new version is much cleaner than the old one. I have to confess that I haven't tried either of these myself in .40 S&W yet, but will be in the next week or two. Both powders have worked well for me in other calibers at about the same pressure levels - 231 in 9x19, and Unique in .357 Magnum. The loads in UWMitch's post probably won't work in your guns due to the overall length - they'd be too long in an XD or a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Dont really want to advertise it to too many, But Solo 1000 is as perfect a powder you are ever going to find in 40. Just amazing with moly bullets. Oh, i mean, solo 1000 sucks, dont buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rusert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) For my G22: 4.7 gr VV N320 180 gr Zero JHP, 170 PF. Very clean, relatively soft. However, it's even better in my G35. Edited - Oh yeah - 1.135 OAL Edited June 12, 2008 by Eastkoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politegunner Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Ooops, went back and edited my reply. Misread the OALs used by UW Mitch. Yup, too long for the Glock chamber. I think the max is 1.135. Anyway, thanks for all the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy1199 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 6.0 grains of WST behind a 155gr MG plated FN gives me a muzzle velocity of 1,050 fps from of a Glock 23 for a power factor of 162.75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 WSF will get you what you want out of a .40. Max loads for this powder will put you at or above Winchester Ranger defensive ammo speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 You may want to reduce this load by a grain if you try it. My defense load has been 10.5grs 3n37 under a Sierra 135jhp with a small rifle primer. It clocks over 1400fps out of a G22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiredGun Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 My full power load for the 40S&W is 8.5 grains of Longshot behind a 155 grain Hornady XTP lit by a CCI-550 magnum primer. Velocity out of my factory barreled G23 is 1266fps with the ES in the 10 and under range. I have no trouble hitting IHMSA 22 targets to 100 yards with it. In the 10mm I use 9.5 grains to get 1300 fps out of the 180 grain version of the same bullet lit by CCI-350 primers. Longshot burns so clean in both my Glocks it is hard to tell they have been fired after 100 rounds. My cases stay bright and clean. It is well known in these two calibers to give high velocity with minimal pressure compared to the same velocity with any other powder. As with any load info back up 10% and work up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 165gr Precision Delta 6.2 gr Universal Clays 1015 fps 167 PF 1.210 AOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Titegroup unk charge wt unk oal Zero Bullets 180 FMJ 190 pf area 8 and VA/MD sectionals 185 PF Summer Blast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Agree. WSF is my powder of choice for .40 S&W. 5.8gr WSF under a 165gr plated Ranier bullet will get you ~175 power factor. Much less snappier and lower slide velocities thatn Win 231 in comparison... Mick WSF will get you what you want out of a .40. Max loads for this powder will put you at or above Winchester Ranger defensive ammo speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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