waxman Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) I just got my new Doctor 21 rnd reloadable mag on friday,and tested it out today. I was a little worried when i got the package, and there was a waiver/warning inside. It stated that the mag was not tuned, and may have to be ,by a gunsmith for proper function.I was kinda upset at this, because the reason I waited for 2 weeks for it, was so they could tune it. Well Scratch all of that. The mag was very nice looking and fit the gun as perfectly as my sv mags. I immediately loaded it, and got the 21 rnds, but barely, definetly not a reloadable 21. I decided to leave them loaded for a day to see if the spring loosens up, it has not yet. My first run, initialy sucked, but turned out awesome. I seated the mag normally, and when I chambered the first round, the mag fell out . Ok, with that much spring pressure, you need to reall slam the mag home for a secure seat. Now for functioning. I shot the mag loaded to 21, about 5 times, I tried quick reloads with it, and really fast double taps. I could not get it to malfunction. I ended up putting about 200 rns through it, and it ran perfectly. I am very happy with the mag, and could not ask for much more. How can you beat a gun topped off with 22 rnds? I have heard a few bad things about doctor and sps, but I am here to tell you, I am very happy with mine. I would definetly order again. Here are a few pics. I have added a pic of both sv, and SPS mags seated in my sv, just to show length. The SPS seems to stick out further, but is guaranteed to be 100% legal. I will measure this to be sure. Edited April 6, 2008 by waxman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 The one I got runs fine but only with 1.185 length ammo or shorter. Since I normally load to 1.200 I do have to keep a box of "special" ammo just for that mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockopen Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) I think it is a crap shoot right out of the box on his mag's for reliability. I was told they needed to be "tuned" for 100% reliability. I spent a few extra bucks and bought one "tuned" from Derek at Millennium Customs and it is perfect. the base is a different than from Docter but that is not an issue. I picked it up at the Florida State Match so he was able to test the ones he had against my gun to make sure everything worked perfectly. Even if I had to order one I feel comfortable that it would work fine. I was able to get 21 with a little wiggle room left, I think after the spring breaks in I could get 22, even Derek thinks so. I tried it with ammo with lengths from 1.175 to 1.200 and they all ran perfectly. Edited April 6, 2008 by glockopen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 You can get as much or more capacity out of an STI or SV tuned tube and load as long as 1.250" without issue but I am glad to hear your mag is working well for you. Magazines that work sure make shooting more fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Thanks HSMITH, I have not seen anyone else advertising 21 rnd capacity out of other tubes. Several people posted getting 20 from your tuned mags.What do you usually get out of them? When I called Doctor, they told me, if the mag did not work perfectly, or get 21, I could send it back for a replacement, or refund. As far as the length goes, The guy who I bought my SV from, sugested a 1.175 OAL, that has worked perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 (edited) Hi waxman, Good to hear that you are happy with your purchase from DocterUSA. Your experience with this is what DocterUSA is bring to the shooting sports industry. As most everyone knows, I have been working with DocterUSA (Dean Makkos) for a long time, and have been informing him on how mags work and what to look for in determining a good mag tube from a bad one. I am going to start this post with an explanation as to what SPS sells. This explanation has never changed from day one that DocterUSA got involved in the SPS mag tubes. DocterUSA sells a mag kit, that includes an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) SPS mag tube, and a Grams Follower Kit + Base Pad. No way was it said or implied that the tube was tuned. DocterUSA does not tune mags. DocterUSA is hand inspecting all the tubes that are sold, to give the customer the best parts available "off the shelf". This gives the customer the best chance of getting something that works out of the box, for a reasonable "buy it in one place" price. What more can anyone ask for. If you buy an off the shelf mag tube from any of the other tube manufactures, you get a stock tube, and you take your chances with whether it works or not. What ever guarantee you get from these other manufactures is what you to get. DocterUSA is going to give you the best chance in getting a good mag out the box, in stock form. Now, I don't know how anyone can imply that it is tuned, but this miss-information has been enough of a problem that a printed disclaimer is now placed with every mag kit sold through DocterUSA. The Disclaimer reads: "SPS Mag Kit from www.DocterUSA.com The mag kit you have purchased has been packaged with an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) SPS mag tube, which has been hand inspected for proper dimensions, function and capacity. The mag tube has not been "tuned" by DocterUSA or any other entity, therefore fit to an individual's firearm or how tight the advertised capacity is perceived, is out of our control. The purchaser is responsible for final fit and function of the mag kit and is advised to find a qualified gunsmith for assistance. Maximum OAL (Over-All-Length) of cartridge allowed in the SPS mag tube for .40cal is 1.175". Max OAL for a .38/9mm HP/FP (hollow point/flat point bullet) is 1.225". A .38/9mm RN (round nose bullet) can be up to 1.235" OAL." You may be wondering what happens to the tubes that don't make the inspection? They all come to me. I determine if I can fix the tube and sell them as my "Grams Tune Mag Kit", or they get sent back to SPS. Plain and simple, "Grams Built, Grams Guaranteed". Do to the work I have done with Dean Makkos and SPS, I have been able to have tube improvements made at the SPS factory, and have been very happy with the results. Round counts for the Limited legal .40cal mag is 21, and the Open legal .38/9mm big stick is now 30 rounds. Remember, if you want a stock, off the shelf, "OEM SPS mag kit", buy it from DocterUSA. Price is very reasonable compared to buying a tube, follower spring, and base pad from any of the other manufacture. If you want a "Grams Tuned Mag Kit" then buy it from Grams Engineering. I am available to answer any questions about this matter, so speculation and rumors should not get out of control. Edited April 6, 2008 by TeamGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Any chance they (SPS) is doing tubes for Paro Ord P-16's ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 mwx40x40, I am working on getting some of those tubes now. When they are ready for production release, it will be announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Maximum OAL (Over-All-Length) of cartridge allowed in the SPS mag tube for .40cal is 1.175". Round counts for the Limited legal .40cal mag is 21, OK dumb question time, Why only 1.175" OAL for the .40? Limited legal = ~141.25mm and fits the gauge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Chris, the length of the tube from the back to the front is the limiting factor for OAL in the SPS 40 cal tubes. They are 40 S&W tubes where most of the other alternatives are more or less 40/10mm tubes and allow you to run out to 1.250" or so. STI and SV tubes tuned for max capacity take most bullet shapes that long and can be 21 rounds easily with the right components. Limited legal means it will fit the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Maximum OAL (Over-All-Length) of cartridge allowed in the SPS mag tube for .40cal is 1.175". Round counts for the Limited legal .40cal mag is 21, OK dumb question time, Why only 1.175" OAL for the .40? Limited legal = ~141.25mm and fits the gauge? Chris, The .40cal SPS tube is made in such a way that ammo longer then 1.175" will not fit properly inside the tube, from front to back. A cartridge that is too long will rub the inside front corner (on the right side of the tube) and the back of the tube at the same time. This causes the cartridge to push toward the center of the tube, messing up the capacity and function of the mag. In my experience, there is no reason to load .40cal ammo longer then 1.175" for a 1911 type gun. And yes Chris, Limited legal means that the mag fits in the USPSA Mag Length Gauge at 141.25mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahtsay Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I have 2 SPS tubes which I got about 2 years ago. I haven't been using them in a match because they're not very reliable. I always have jams (usually double feeding). I load my ammo at 1.180 OAL....could this be what is causing the problem? I'm using grams guts and SV (type) wedge pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hi ahtsay, The time you purchased your SPS tubes was before DocterUSA or I was involved with your purchase. The length of 1.180" is within the +or- .005 tolerance from the max OAL spec I give, so I would not think your ammo length is in question. But I do not know what your tube looks like or its history of manufacture. I would be happy to help if you give me a call directly so you can give me more details on your problem mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Chris, the length of the tube from the back to the front is the limiting factor for OAL in the SPS 40 cal tubes. They are 40 S&W tubes where most of the other alternatives are more or less 40/10mm tubes and allow you to run out to 1.250" or so. STI and SV tubes tuned for max capacity take most bullet shapes that long and can be 21 rounds easily with the right components. Limited legal means it will fit the gauge. I use STI .40 mags that are Limited division legal, fit the EGW gauge, hold 21 rounds, are reloadable at 21 rounds, and run reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Does anyone sell a Mandrel made to proper specs to properly size out an STI mag tube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I hope SPS is making their mag more durable. I bought a couple 3 years ago in 38 super/9mm. They worked fine at first but the lips started to spread and I was getting jams within a year. Also, the finish started coming off at the lips. Needless to say, I'm was not impressed with SPS magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I hope SPS is making their mag more durable. I bought a couple 3 years ago in 38 super/9mm. They worked fine at first but the lips started to spread and I was getting jams within a year. Also, the finish started coming off at the lips. Needless to say, I'm was not impressed with SPS magazines. Eric, SPS mag tubes do not have a coating on them, never did. Stainless steel in the white is what they are made of. I would have to say that someone put an aftermarket coating on them before you got them. Who knows what else was done. Feed lip dimension changes are a common issue with any manufactures tubes, especially when we use them the way we do in our sport. Magazine maintenance is just as important as the rest of your gun maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I bought them brand new. Maybe they were fake SPS magazines but who would do such a stupid thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 I am sensing a little hostility towards SPS mags. Wonder where all of this is comming from? Must be a ,I dont want to change mentality. S_I Has worked for years, why change Type of thing. I got the same attitude, when I Stopped driving my 12 MPG Chevy 3/4 Ton to the construction job in Favor of My 25MPG Toyota. Heard alot of Crap about that too. Well now with Gas nearing $ 3.50 a gallon. No one is preaching anymore. I have now Ran over 500 Rnds through the SPS Doctor Mag, guess what , Not one failure. Finish still looks new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) I am sensing a little hostility towards SPS mags. Wonder where all of this is comming from? Must be a ,I dont want to change mentality. S_I Has worked for years, why change Type of thing. I got the same attitude, when I Stopped driving my 12 MPG Chevy 3/4 Ton to the construction job in Favor of My 25MPG Toyota. Heard alot of Crap about that too. Well now with Gas nearing $ 3.50 a gallon. No one is preaching anymore. I have now Ran over 500 Rnds through the SPS Doctor Mag, guess what , Not one failure. Finish still looks new. No hostility here. I'm just presenting what I experienced with what I thought were brand new SPS tubes. If your Toyota fell apart tomorrow (which is impossible with a Toyota), I'm sure you'd be saying you are not impressed with Toyota and regret making the change. If I do find out my tubes were not really SPS, I woundn't mind trying some real ones. I think a lot of us could benefit from a 21 round magazine. Edited April 11, 2008 by ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 If my Toyota fell apart tomorrow, i would buy another one, if I could find one. I paid 5k for it, and have put 70,000 miles on it, and other then wiper blades, and tires, have not put a penny into it. Kinda getting off the subject, but you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybrosh Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Hi everyone, Just to clarify mattes before I reply. I do not work for SPS I just own several SPS guns and in good terms with them for quite some time now. Their Mags like their Grips with the integral magwells, have gone through several generations. The first mags that came out(if I remember correctly)had coating on them. The new generation mags that came a few years back are made from stainless steel without any coating. I have about 13 of them(Stainless steel), all 120mm 9/38 with a couple of 170mm. All in high capacity(18/20 and 26/29 rounds), and all have the original SPS springs, followers and base plates(not the new Grams or Dawson). All mags function properly for years. A lot of my mates use SPS mags, including Bul M5 owners, and all are happy with it. Now...for Docter(generations) I've seen many Gen.II but mostly Gen.III that failed(wiring)but since Gen.IV, no problems whatsoever. It's all about generations, isn't it? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longrange2 Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 How do these compare price wise to the S_I mags and tubes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 How do these compare price wise to the S_I mags and tubes? Look here for prices: www.docterusa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 If my Toyota fell apart tomorrow, i would buy another one, if I could find one. I paid 5k for it, and have put 70,000 miles on it, and other then wiper blades, and tires, have not put a penny into it. Kinda getting off the subject, but you asked. I bought my toyota for 700 with 243000 miles. Got 276000 and still a chuggin. I have a borrowed SPS mag and have shot a few rounds through it and am pretty impressed with it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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