ErikW Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I took the STI Recoil Masters out of my Limited guns last night. I've been having feeding problems in my A gun I attributed to my magazine springs or followers. While loading dummy rounds in a mag and experimenting, I found I could lower the slide breechface onto the case head and stop the slide with the round against the feed ramp, in both A and B guns. This is a classic case of a weak recoil spring. I took out the RMs and put in steel guide rods with Wolff 12-13 # springs and I couldn't stop the slides on the rounds; they always fed and closed. The RMs did run for thousands of rounds without trouble, maybe as long as a standard recoil spring is supposed to last. The recoil master is designed to last at least 10 times the service life of a conventional recoil assembly without damage or weakening of the system. I don't think so. Due to proprietary design characteristics the chambering of rounds is more forgiving of feed lip designs due to its' "Soft Touch" chambering. Ah, but a too-soft touch is exactly my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Eric, You're killing me with the quotes and responses!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Forum member Charles has one in his .45 and while RO'in him it looked like the slowest cycling gun I've ever seen shooting major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I found out it was not legal in IDPA so I removed it and went back to a 10 lb IMSI recoil spring. A dual spring set-up similar to the recoil master is legal in IDPA as long as it is not called recoil anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 Well, damn. Now I don't know. My gun had a couple feed hiccups running a steel guide rod and 12-13# spring. Then my backup gun had a feed jam with the same setup. And the recoil with the backup gun was punishing. I noticed the lack of RecoilMaster on my first stage with the A gun, but I was used to it by the second stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 If your mags are fine and your shooting an SV make sure the interchangable breech face is where it's supposed to be. When I see your kind of feed jams the common cause is the breech face slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Erik - Have you tried to make your own Recoil-Master type spring setup using your standard guide rod? I recently made a version for use in my Limited gun and its worked for a couple thousand of rounds so far without a hitch. I simply use two springs of different rates to create a variable spring rate broader than both the R-M and after market springs offer. I just put the springs closed end to closed end and trim the excess length from the open ends. To allow the springs to slide along the guide rod easier I sand and polish the insides of the spring's closed ends, and lightly file a "flat" on each end so the closed ends meet more square. Currently I use about a 60/40 mix of a 10 lb spring and a 15 lb spring. RESULTS? Where a normal 13 pound spring might give you a rate range of 8-13 pounds (preloaded to max compression) my combo is giving me 7-14 pounds across the same range. Its like a R-M with no parts to break and an infinite range of resistance available. You can use any mix of old springs to create your own formula. I have a couple of thousand rounds through mine so far without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 when are you guy's going to keep it simple & reliable. reg. guide rod/ reg. recoil spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Benny, this one you should have posted 5 times! --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Benny, half of the fun (and cost) is experimenting. We're looking for the holy grail--flat (no muzzle rise) and soft shooting (recoil somewhere between a BB gun and a .22), fast and light, incredibly accurate, and 110% reliable. The gun also has to compensate for flinching, blinking, trigger freeze, less than perfect grip and stance, etc. I know this gun doesn't exist, but hell we can keep on searching anyway. BTW, aren't you the same Benny Hill that developed the 6" fat-free gun? I see your guns or knock-offs of your ideas in a lot of matches. Seems like you've started a little trend. Pretty innovative stuff for a guy that's arguing for a meat and potatoes approach to recoil management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I'm no GM but my mentor is and he has seen a 30% increase in performance from his open guns with the recoil master. He came up with his own combo of spring weight to make it work the way he likes it. He did have one break after about 50-60k and put a guide rod in to finish up the practice session and said he forgot how much it sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Same Bennie Hill, and his fat free may be inovative and it does work but it is a plane forward meat & potatos gun. No tricky this or that nothing to break, just works! Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Add me to the list of those with a broken Recoil Master. Cleaning the gun tonight for MGM 3 gun on Friday. I noticed the flange on the cannulated rod that rides over the smaller spring had broken off. I would be hacked off, but because of all the problems reported on the forum, I had a spare on hand. What guide rod (stainless)and plug would you guys recommend that will just drop in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 There's no such thing as drop-in in the 1911/2011 world. You aren't even guaranteed a drop-in recoil spring, ferchrissakes. My A gun requires a fitted plug. Either A or B, I forget which, can't run the other one's steel guide rod. I bought a tungsten rod and had to fit it. For your best chances at drop-in, I'd go with the SV steel guide rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Erik, you like fiddling with different spring rates and such, what do you think of my dual spring idea to produce broad variable spring rates on a standard guide rod? I am finding it works, and its such a cheap alternative to the recoil-master with a better range of performance. And no parts to break! And Jon - how does your GM mentor figure the 30% performance improvement? By what measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 and is he involved by any chance in the sales or distribution process of this item? Just a thought.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 Fiddling with springs? Not me. I hate fiddling with anything and I just want my gun to shoot reliably. When it doesn't, that's when the fiddling begins. I don't know, I guess the dual-springs could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Detlef, No he does not sell them. You wrote in FS about him and I think you said you learned alot just by watching him at Area 5 a couple of years ago. BamBam, I guess by sight tracking and I guess he used a calculator. Hell I don't know, I'll take notes and report back next time I talk to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 I put the RecoilMasters back in as soon as I figured out the magazines were the cause of the feed jams. They've been running great since. Friday, I broke one of the RecoilMasters and didn't even know it. (I was still adjusting to the new tungsten barrel sleeve, and I thought the gun didn't feel as soft as the day before.) The gun kept running. Cleaning the guns today, I found the flange broke off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old john Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Erik, Can you tell us what you found with the mags. I have had similar problems with feeding and stove pipe jams however my problems got better with the heavy recoil master but maybe I should also look at the mag problem you found! Anyway glad you are running. Old john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 25, 2003 Author Share Posted August 25, 2003 old john, see my June 16 post in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I guess if he is a GM and had a 30% performance improvement, he will be kicking some ass at the Nationals! He must be a god, he just pushed me to 70%. Hmm. Why don't I think that is a real number more like a sales pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Got a little more detail. 30% come from the lift and return of his dot and overall feel of slide travel. 30% in a guns performance is a big difference than 30% in a shooters performance. Matt, I’ll repeat he does not sell any STI products. But you do sell SV. He is a dear and true friend that has helped along very much. I find your comment about my FRIEND offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmercury2 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 benny do your slides with holes have a greater tendency toward cracking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 I had two jams yesterday. First thing I did was check the RM. Its head spins about the shaft and has a slight wobble. (The other one in the other gun doesn't spin and doesn't wobble.) It also had a couple metal shavings that looked like they came off the barrel. (They were shiny, stainless-like steel; the frame is hard chromed.) Is it broken? The feed jams could have been from the very dirty gun (though I've run it dirty before), from the SlideGlide #1 in the cold (though it ran at Area 1 much colder), from mag springs gone bad, or from new bullets I'm trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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