Shooting Production

[JThompson]

I bought a DOH and am going to use my PX4 for some production shooting. It's rather strange to go from shooting a dot to a iron sight. I have never used an iron for anything other than plinking. I jumped into USPSA and went straight to open class.

I got in a couple hours practice so far and have been trying to overcome target focus issues from the dot. I also find that the plate rack is an issue as the movement of the plates falling pulls my eyes back to the target. I always hit the first 2 or 3 and then I'll loose tight focus on the front sight and through a flyer on the 4-5 plates.

Any words of wisdom on how to keep that front sight focus when shooting racks or multi steel? I seem to do pretty well on paper targets because there is nothing to draw the eye.

Any help which you iron shooters can give me will be taken gladly. Also, any clues, look-fors or hints about what you had issues with when switching, would also be welcome. From what I saw of my skills with a, very short, production gun... I'd be very lucky to be classed C.

Thanks

Jim

[Flexmoney]

Decide what the priority is. Lose the expectations.

[JThompson]

Decide what the priority is. Lose the expectations.

Can you expand a bit on that Kyle?

[Flexmoney]

You have to decide...really decide...that the priority is to see the front sight in razor sharp focus. It will feel like you are going backwards and your ego will fight you all the way. You will have to go back to learning to crawl...before you can walk...before you can run.

[spook]

Bring your focus back to the FS before every shot. Do it consciously and after while you will do it subconsciously. It appears to be slow at first, but just stick to it. If you find your focus wanders off to the target, just bring it back consciously.

Cool that you're switching for a while. Any specific reason for that?

[JThompson]

You have to decide...really decide...that the priority is to see the front sight in razor sharp focus. It will feel like you are going backwards and your ego will fight you all the way. You will have to go back to learning to crawl...before you can walk...before you can run.

I understand now. That's just how I was feeling when I was shooting. I was thinking... there's no way I can be this slow and my body was trying to push faster than I could go. There is also an issue with eye dominance. My right eye is only slightly more dominant than my left and with both eyes open sometimes my left wants to take over. How do you feel about putting one of those static things on the left to partially block you vision? Also, I need another proscription to change over from both eyes focusing far. I need to get a pair made to focus on the front sight for the right and distance for the left. That may help the problem, but may not cure it. In the past I always shot with my left closed when plinking. It wasn't until I shot the dot I managed to use both eyes. Switching to production I found my natural instint was to keep both eyes open from shooting the dot, but have had some issues with focusing properly between the two eyes.

Thanks for your input.

JT

[kevin c]

Maybe try watching the FS rise off the steel?

[EkuJustice]

For the eye problem I would talk with an eye guy who does actual shooting glasses/lenses like the Randolph Ranger shooting glasses not someone who can simply tint some polycarbonite lenses and stick them in some frames. I get all mine from WIlliam O Willis in Fredericksburg, VA. He gets your perscrition, pupil distance etc and what you need done and can make the to work for the disipline you are shooting his number is 540-371-9245, I recommend the randolph ranger frames that the lenses interchange in, lifetime warrenty if they break get bent etc send them to him and get a new set of frames in the mail.

For the open/production transition try really concentrating on that front sight. It is definately going to slow you down over what your use to in open. Its alot more jump than you are probibally use to with all the compensators, extra weight etc on the open guns. It also takes more time to align the sights than put a dot on it. Work more on hitting quality hits and less on the actual speed that you do it in. SInce your shooting minor in production those points drop off alot quicker than major and your not going to be able to just hoze as much as you can in open.

[Matt Cheely]

I have the same problem on plate racks. If the first few fall nice and quick I keep yankin' on the trigger and start missing.

Like Kyle said (I think he got the decide part from me ) Just decide to see the front sight on each shot. That determines your speed. It's hard to slow down to the visual speed of irons after shooting a dot. Just see what you need to see.

[j1b]

Welcome to production - I've had a great time shooting this division!!!!

Part of me wonders if you might not be looking for the differences. One of those deals where there is such a huge change that it becomes difficult to focus on just the shooting.

Don't forget that everything that made you successful with the open gun applies to the production gun. You let what you see dictate your shooting, you call your shots (moreso in production because dropped points SUCK here!), and you steer the gun.

It's like going from a dragster to a box car. There are clearly differences and nuances to the different vehicles. But the fundamentals on how to drive haven't changed. And those fundamentals will once again take you to success.

For me, and this is just my experience, KNOWING I have to shoot killer points everytime is a key. In open/lim/lim-10 dropped points here and there cost a little - but are liveable. 8 C's in this game is 16 points. That's a miss! So that realization has really forced me to focus on the sights. Forced me to focus on seeing what I needed to. Otherwise I'll drop a billion points at the drop of a hat.

J

[ChuckS]

Jim,

You may want to brush up on reloading, you will be doing more than you may be used to with your 36 round big stick!

[AustinMike]

I shot a match last weekend that had plate racks on two stages. Smoked the first (field course), but blew a speed shoot. I wasn't sure what went wrong, but thinking back, I bet I was focused on the plates and not the front sight. I try to watch the good production shooters when I'm shooting that division. Avoid the temptation to watch and then then try to shoot like a good open shooter! It does seem really slow getting a good iron sight picture, at least at first. It's starting to click for me and it's getting faster. You HAVE to see the front sight aligned in the rear notch and see it rise from there. If you don't, you probably missed! Sometimes just shooting into the berm or running Bill drills and focusing on nothing but seeing the front sight move is good for you.

[JThompson]

Thanks for all your thoughts guys... It's humbling to start at zero again. I'm going to the range in a few to get some more time in. I will ~gasp~ work some dry fire drills including reloads. I'm used to having that huge magwell and the little PX4 has no room for error. I'm also off to get a prescription to see the front sight better as soon as Nemo's gift arrives.

Keep the info coming if you have more thoughts.

Best,

JT

[JThompson]

Jim,

You may want to brush up on reloading, you will be doing more than you may be used to with your 36 round big stick!

Chuck, you really must stop peaking.

I hear you though... I'm going to work on them.

[eerw]

plate racks are tough..if you have success on the first 3 or 4 plates..you start looking and forgetting what got you that success..

when it comes to points..production is like shooting virginia count..each shot has got to count for maximum points..otherwise you are just giving it away..

the shooter before you and and after are going to pull the trigger just as fast..you have to maxmize your points..

[Sparky]

I bought a DOH and am going to use my PX4 for some production shooting. It's rather strange to go from shooting a dot to a iron sight. I have never used an iron for anything other than plinking. I jumped into USPSA and went straight to open class.

I got in a couple hours practice so far and have been trying to overcome target focus issues from the dot. I also find that the plate rack is an issue as the movement of the plates falling pulls my eyes back to the target. I always hit the first 2 or 3 and then I'll loose tight focus on the front sight and through a flyer on the 4-5 plates.

Any words of wisdom on how to keep that front sight focus when shooting racks or multi steel? I seem to do pretty well on paper targets because there is nothing to draw the eye.

Any help which you iron shooters can give me will be taken gladly. Also, any clues, look-fors or hints about what you had issues with when switching, would also be welcome. From what I saw of my skills with a, very short, production gun... I'd be very lucky to be classed C.

Thanks

Jim

Jimmy,

Good thing you switched, cause you suck with an Open gun; Class C sounds about right

[SA Friday]

I bought a DOH and am going to use my PX4 for some production shooting. It's rather strange to go from shooting a dot to a iron sight. I have never used an iron for anything other than plinking. I jumped into USPSA and went straight to open class.

I got in a couple hours practice so far and have been trying to overcome target focus issues from the dot. I also find that the plate rack is an issue as the movement of the plates falling pulls my eyes back to the target. I always hit the first 2 or 3 and then I'll loose tight focus on the front sight and through a flyer on the 4-5 plates.

Any words of wisdom on how to keep that front sight focus when shooting racks or multi steel? I seem to do pretty well on paper targets because there is nothing to draw the eye.

Any help which you iron shooters can give me will be taken gladly. Also, any clues, look-fors or hints about what you had issues with when switching, would also be welcome. From what I saw of my skills with a, very short, production gun... I'd be very lucky to be classed C.

Thanks

Jim

Jimmy,

Good thing you switched, cause you suck with an Open gun; Class C sounds about right

Sounds like the squad I shot with last weekend . Gotta love it.

[bufit323]

This may be redundant, and it of course sounds too simple: In production, the guns are a little less friendly and of course dropping points hurts more. The bottom line is only go as fast as you can allign the sights and squeeze the trigger with enough control to make the shot that is at hand.

I know this seems like you are going at a turtle's pace. This is how I shoot and I still feel like I am crawling. But without really changing anything conciously, this tactic has gradually brought me to the higher levels of B-class and I often shoot low A classifiers (I hope to move up this year). Maye if I wuold practice some, I would make it a little higher.

Even though you already know this, it never hurts to hear it again: if you focus on executing the proper fundamental of sight allignment and trigger control (correctly every time) eventually your subconcious mind will begin to take control and your speed will come.

I am not there yet, but I am getting there. I generally am not the fastest production guy at our club matches, but I can often keep up with the others on HF becuase of my front sight focus. when I lose that focus, the wheels come off fairly quickly. Putting the wheels back on is a whole other learning process for me.

Good luck, keep shooting A's.

[JThompson]

I bought a DOH and am going to use my PX4 for some production shooting. It's rather strange to go from shooting a dot to a iron sight. I have never used an iron for anything other than plinking. I jumped into USPSA and went straight to open class.

I got in a couple hours practice so far and have been trying to overcome target focus issues from the dot. I also find that the plate rack is an issue as the movement of the plates falling pulls my eyes back to the target. I always hit the first 2 or 3 and then I'll loose tight focus on the front sight and through a flyer on the 4-5 plates.

Any words of wisdom on how to keep that front sight focus when shooting racks or multi steel? I seem to do pretty well on paper targets because there is nothing to draw the eye.

Any help which you iron shooters can give me will be taken gladly. Also, any clues, look-fors or hints about what you had issues with when switching, would also be welcome. From what I saw of my skills with a, very short, production gun... I'd be very lucky to be classed C.

Thanks

Jim

Jimmy,

Good thing you switched, cause you suck with an Open gun; Class C sounds about right

This may be redundant, and it of course sounds too simple: In production, the guns are a little less friendly and of course dropping points hurts more. The bottom line is only go as fast as you can allign the sights and squeeze the trigger with enough control to make the shot that is at hand.

I know this seems like you are going at a turtle's pace. This is how I shoot and I still feel like I am crawling. But without really changing anything conciously, this tactic has gradually brought me to the higher levels of B-class and I often shoot low A classifiers (I hope to move up this year). Maye if I wuold practice some, I would make it a little higher.

Even though you already know this, it never hurts to hear it again: if you focus on executing the proper fundamental of sight allignment and trigger control (correctly every time) eventually your subconcious mind will begin to take control and your speed will come.

I am not there yet, but I am getting there. I generally am not the fastest production guy at our club matches, but I can often keep up with the others on HF becuase of my front sight focus. when I lose that focus, the wheels come off fairly quickly. Putting the wheels back on is a whole other learning process for me.

Good luck, keep shooting A's.

I loaded some 147gr bullets for practice today, had been using 115 from my open, and this little PX4 does not like them at all. I was seeing 3-4 inch groups at 15yds. The gun also shoots about 2in loaw and 3 left at 15. It shoots the same place with the 115s but will groups about 1 at 15 yds. I'm using about 3.4 TG and the 147s PD JHPs. I guess it's back to the 115, but I like the recoil better with the 147s.

I also found that I had to increase my grip pressure, with my left hand, about 40% over what I use on the open. Do you guys find you input more grip pressure with production over open?

So true!!

How's that shoulder of yours coming along buddy?

plate racks are tough..if you have success on the first 3 or 4 plates..you start looking and forgetting what got you that success..

when it comes to points..production is like shooting virginia count..each shot has got to count for maximum points..otherwise you are just giving it away..

the shooter before you and and after are going to pull the trigger just as fast..you have to maxmize your points..

I made a good deal of headway today by increasing weak hand grip and keeping my focus on the front sight. I still slip back to target, but I know when I doing it.

I need some adjustable sights for this thing and a trigger job, but I've decided to shoot it stock. I'm loading up some 115s for tomorrow and will check the sight and drift accordingly. I can deal with the low shooting easy enough by covering the target.

One thing I found is that the 3in barrel is not very forgiving of movement.

Thanks again everyone and keep the advice coming.

Best,

Jim

Edited March 26, 2008 by JThompson

[Flexmoney]

50-50 chance (or better ) that your sights aren't off.

Shoot it weak-handed and see where the group is.

[JThompson]

50-50 chance (or better ) that your sights aren't off.

Shoot it weak-handed and see where the group is.

I checked it off a sand bag. Squeezed it so easy it scared me when it fired. Two shots right on top of one another 2 low 3 left and a flyer...

[Flexmoney]

Yeah...I shot nice groups at 7y (rested) when I started on the Glock. Low and left is seldom the gun.

[JThompson]

Yeah...I shot nice groups at 7y (rested) when I started on the Glock. Low and left is seldom the gun.

I also handed to an old hand and had him shoot it without any remarks on my part... same thing. It's possible we both had the same issue, but I think it unlikely. I will try shooting it left and see what happens. An FYI I shot a 1911 today off the rest and it was right on the money... granted the 1911 trigger is a hell of a lot better than my PX4. I'll do some testing tomorrow and let ya know.

Where's Cheely when ya need him?

Edited March 27, 2008 by JThompson

[Sparky]

Hey Jim,

Shoulder is getting better, hope to be back in May.

Ron

[JThompson]

Hey Jim,

Shoulder is getting better, hope to be back in May.

Ron

I'm glad to hear it... looking forward to seeing you on the range again.