why so many guns shoot to the left

[Bud]

A question I would love to know the answers to....why do so many guns shoot to the left?? I have had this experience far more often than not. I understand the mechanics of the 1911/2011 to the extent that I have done my own trigger jobs,sight work, milling,fitting safties,triggers,extractors ect,.ect. for years. I have fit a couple barrels that turned out sweet but prefer to let others with better tools/more experience fit most of mine. Out of 6 pisols (2 STIs,1 SV,2 Kimbers and a Para) all but the fixed sighted kimber have the rear sight adusted to the right to some degree. I recently discovered the XD-9 I thought was "out of the box" dead on is actually printing its groups 3 in. left at 40 yds. I once seen a brand new Kimber still be 6in. left at 25 with its rear sight blade all the way to the right...they ended up replacing the barrel..OK Im gettin long here (first post) my question is what are the causes of this..barrel issues, barrel fitting issues,frame issues ?????

[Paul Burtchell]

A question I would love to know the answers to....why do so many guns shoot to the left?? I have had this experience far more often than not. I understand the mechanics of the 1911/2011 to the extent that I have done my own trigger jobs,sight work, milling,fitting safties,triggers,extractors ect,.ect. for years. I have fit a couple barrels that turned out sweet but prefer to let others with better tools/more experience fit most of mine. Out of 6 pisols (2 STIs,1 SV,2 Kimbers and a Para) all but the fixed sighted kimber have the rear sight adusted to the right to some degree. I recently discovered the XD-9 I thought was "out of the box" dead on is actually printing its groups 3 in. left at 40 yds. I once seen a brand new Kimber still be 6in. left at 25 with its rear sight blade all the way to the right...they ended up replacing the barrel..OK Im gettin long here (first post) my question is what are the causes of this..barrel issues, barrel fitting issues,frame issues ?????

It's probably not the guns. Most common for a right hand shooter to shoot left and more times than not low left if you are yanking on the trigger.

Sorry I was a little short, before the edit.

Welcome to the forums.

Edited March 20, 2008 by baerburtchell

[Merlin Orr]

Welcome to the Forums, Bud.

You a right handed shooter?

[Merlin Orr]

Woops...

Edited March 20, 2008 by Merlin Orr

[indyshooter]

alot of right handed shooters have a tendency to shoot left, especially low left as they are anticipating the recoil and push. a good drill is to have someone else load your gun, sometimes with a couple of rounds(so you can't feel much weight difference) and sometimes empty. watch your front sight as you squeeze and see if it dips on the empties. you'll be surprised.

[RobMoore]

I thought this was going to be a "humor intended" post at first.

Sounds like you could use some dummy rounds mixed in with your live rounds, Bud. You'll probably find that its not the guns fault.

[G-ManBart]

I'm not sure I've ever seen the problem in near the frequency you're talking about. I'm a firearms instructor and almost all of the guns I see are either Glocks or Sigs with fixed sights. I can't recall a single one that ever had to be adjusted more than a little bit to be right on the money. 99% of the time when someone claims their gun is shooting to the left they're a right-handed shooter....so one of us will shoot a group with it and find it's exactly point of aim, point of impact. The other 1% we make a minor change and it's perfect. Out of the 4 Glocks I have, only one required a sight adjustment and that was maybe a 2" correction in windage (25yds) when I went through instructor school...it's so slight you can hardly tell the rear sight isn't centered.

All of my 1911/2011 guns have the rear sight almost exactly in the center...maybe a couple of clicks either way at most.

[el pres]

ote name='RobMoore' date='Mar 20 2008, 05:53 PM' post='726542']

I thought this was going to be a "humor intended" post at first.

Sounds like you could use some dummy rounds mixed in with your live rounds, Bud. You'll probably find that its not the guns fault.

Thats mean ! Acually I thought this was , nevermind, most of us right handers have and are going through this.

[Bud]

ote name='RobMoore' date='Mar 20 2008, 05:53 PM' post='726542']

I thought this was going to be a "humor intended" post at first.

Sounds like you could use some dummy rounds mixed in with your live rounds, Bud. You'll probably find that its not the guns fault.

Thats mean ! Acually I thought this was , nevermind, most of us right handers have and are going through this.

Thanks guys!! I did not mean to get into a discussion on trigger control. I am not surprized at your responses...I would probably have done the same. Some additional info for you to consider....left eye dom. Lim. M L-10 M I have had GMs shoot my guns too and...ditto. Also they also are curios as to the causes OUTSIDE of human influence wich is why I posted it in stock/production/limited technical.

[Steve J]

Make sure your lense prescription is up to date. Only own guns with adjustable sights. And, oh ya, practice trigger control.

My rear sight is all the way to the right. Astigmatism makes it worse.

[ima45dv8]

Too much grip with my strong hand usually throws shots to the left for me. Of course it nevers happens in practice, but when the timer beeps, my right hand sometimes gets crazy with trying to hold on.

[Chuck Merriam]

I don't know your answer but if you look at Heine Glock sights the the notch is off center when you mic it out. So there must be something they are trying to counteract with the sight! I think Wil Schueman could answer this question best. I do think the rifling and crown could have some effect though.

[Bud]

I don't know your answer but if you look at Heine Glock sights the the notch is off center when you mic it out. So there must be something they are trying to counteract with the sight! I think Wil Schueman could answer this question best. I do think the rifling and crown could have some effect though.

Thanks Chuck, I have also noticed a few rear sights with the notch cut off center to the right 0.10-0.20???? Another thought is torque caused by bullet contacting rifling??

[Flexmoney]

A question I would love to know the answers to....why do so many guns shoot to the left??

Because most shooters are right handed.

Shoot those guns left handed off a bench and see where they group.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm in the same boat, right handed and left eye dominant. Just about all my guns shoot point of aim with the rear sight centered. I've shot a bunch of student guns as well and had the same results. I've got a couple guns that have the sight somewhere other than in the middle but they are the exception, not the rule. When you find that all your guns do the same thing, the only other variable is the guy shooting. 3in off at 40 yds is not bad at all with an XD. 6 inches at 25 yds with the sight all the way over is another matter. Does this do this with all guns that you shoot or only some? If it's all guns, sorry, the problem is the shooter, regardless of who else you've had shoot them. Statistically, one guy just isn't going to get all the bad guns. If you've got some guns that do it and others that don't I'd look at the grip and trigger design next.

[Bud]

I'm in the same boat, right handed and left eye dominant. Just about all my guns shoot point of aim with the rear sight centered. I've shot a bunch of student guns as well and had the same results. I've got a couple guns that have the sight somewhere other than in the middle but they are the exception, not the rule. When you find that all your guns do the same thing, the only other variable is the guy shooting. 3in off at 40 yds is not bad at all with an XD. 6 inches at 25 yds with the sight all the way over is another matter. Does this do this with all guns that you shoot or only some? If it's all guns, sorry, the problem is the shooter, regardless of who else you've had shoot them. Statistically, one guy just isn't going to get all the bad guns. If you've got some guns that do it and others that don't I'd look at the grip and trigger design next.

Im not saying I am beyond anything.I miss on a regular basis and I am not ashamed of that or afraid to do it again. Geez!! does anybody read the posts they are replying to??? I didnt say this was a huge problem or??? just something Ive noticed on most not All of my guns. Maybe I should have stated that Im only talking about a few clicks or so but it seems to always be to the left as I only have one that is a few clicks to the right.If the error was all mine I would expect to see it with your gun or shooter Xs gun. I have shot most of my buddies guns and if its "sighted in" for them its "sighted in" for me and vice versa. If it was all me how is it I can shoot 3in. groups at 50yds? can bad trigger control/grip be that consistent? I dont think being right handed and left eye dom. is in any way a handicap.

[Bud]

A question I would love to know the answers to....why do so many guns shoot to the left??

Because most shooters are right handed.

Shoot those guns left handed off a bench and see where they group.

Im gonna try that, just for curiousity!! thanks

[Flexmoney]

Tough crowd, huh?

can bad trigger control/grip be that consistent?

Yes, it most certainly can.

[Larry White]

Even if you do look with the wrong eye and wankie on the trigger we still welcome you on the forum. Lots of info here, some of it is real and good, you just showed up on a fun nite I guess. But, welcome anyway.------------Larry

[ebg3]

I'm right handed/right eye dominant and I have a tendancy to shoot groups left of center. I think it's the way I grip the gun and manage the recoil. I can shoot my guns off a sandbag rest and hit center or actually a little right. I've really worked on my grip and control to overcome shooting left and it seems to be working. I am amazed at how consistantly I can group to the left with a gun that is really sighted in. Try shooting left handed with a good grip and see where you are hitting. Also, try a sandbag rest.

[kframe_mike]

I would guess that the folks test firing/sighting these things in at the factory face the same grip/trigger control challenges as the rest of us.

[Allgoodhits]

....and welcome once again!

Some answers are simple, however the solution is very difficult. Certainly your shooting left issue could be a variety of things. Assuming you have eliminated sights, wind, grip, stance, breathing and other variables, I would say the most likely culprit is that during your trigger press you have a tendency (albeit consistent) to cause the gun to move to the left at the time of hammer fall.

If some of this was already mentioned, forgive me for being redundant.

Do you shoot other peoples guns to the "left of where they shoot" their guns? Do other people shoot your gun favoring the same left? What happens if you shoot your gun left handed? Can you use the alternate eye, what is the result? Has a good left handed shooter shot your gun. Result?

The above should offer some diagnosis for you to eliminate what is not the cause. If you can not do the some of the above tests, then can you carefully sand bag the gun(s) and shoot both left handed and right handed? If you find left handed immensely challenging then try, using both left hand and right hand trigger fingers at the same time, or maybe even right hand grip, left trigger finger. The experiment here is to try to determine if the gun continues to shoot left, regardless. If it doesn't then trigger pull is most likely the culprit. Why?

The trigger must be moved in order for the gun to fire. DA requires quite a bit of movement, and SA much less, but still movement. It is difficult to pull a trigger straight to the rear when the instrument (finger) used to pull the trigger must rotate in an arch. It must be an arch, since the pivot point (knuckle) of the finger is about an inch away. If right handed to the right, if left handed to the left. The NATURAL tendency is for the finger tip or pad (contact point with trigger) to move in a slight arc. To prove this, think of your knuckle as an axle, and your finger contact point on trigger as the radius. If you keep the axle or pivot in place and move the finger tip, you have scribed an arc. Keep going and you have a semi-circle, yet more you have a circle.

A right handed shooter will scribe that arc (exaggerated) from 12 oclock to 9 oclock then to 6 oclock. The bow or arc is to the left, and that is the direction that the muzzle tends to go during trigger press, unless you have identified the sympton and have corrected it through slightly differing grip, or trigger finger placement. The right handed shooter tends to do the opposite.

Shooting DA gun DA mode can be a good teacher to reveal this condition since the trigger has to move much further, thus the arc is more pronounced. For some shooting DA, the initial trigger pull may move the muzzle to one side or the other, yet when the trigger finger & trigger get to about where the hammer falls, then the pressure to favor one side or the other as stopped and the trigger then is pressed straight to the rear at that critical point.

And yet finally to make a point. If all else fails and you are confident that the gun is sighted in MZ (mechanical zero) yet you still shoot to the left. Then some how shoot the gun upside down, right handed! My guess is that now it will shoot to the "right" and possibly slightly high.

Mastering the fundamentals is a long process. My background is accuracy shooting, where the trigger control becomes so important, especially on the longer shots. Long meaning 50 yds. No matter how well all the other shooting fundamentals are applied, no matter how accurate the load or the gun, improper trigger pull will ERASE all of it and at any distance it doesn't take much! Poor trigger control is the eraser of shooting good shots, shot after shot.

Have fun, be safe!

Martin

Edited March 21, 2008 by Allgoodhits

[Bud]

Even if you do look with the wrong eye and wankie on the trigger we still welcome you on the forum. Lots of info here, some of it is real and good, you just showed up on a fun nite I guess. But, welcome anyway.------------Larry

Thanks Larry, ..............sometimes I pick my nose too and this one time at boot camp.........

[BSeevers]

Yep tough love coming, no offense intended

I have a saying,

Its a trigger, not a button

[Bud]

I'm right handed/right eye dominant and I have a tendancy to shoot groups left of center. I think it's the way I grip the gun and manage the recoil. I can shoot my guns off a sandbag rest and hit center or actually a little right. I've really worked on my grip and control to overcome shooting left and it seems to be working. I am amazed at how consistantly I can group to the left with a gun that is really sighted in. Try shooting left handed with a good grip and see where you are hitting. Also, try a sandbag rest.

When I sandbag my guns they usually shoot a tiny bit high or more 6 o'clock. At a Manny class a couple years ago he was big on trigger control and taught us the importance of prepping the trigger and that was a big turning point for me. I ditched the overtravel screws and changed trigger inserts and I continue to work hard on the prep-bang- prep bang concept as well as my grip and all fundamentals.2000-2001 I was shooting a few glocks and always had to drift the rear to the right. I still have one of them a G-19 and when I put some "real sights" on it last fall found the rear sight to be perfectly centered.I guess I learned some thing in that time. Of all the guns Ive seen/had and reffered to earlier.... Glocks (owned by people who have learned to shoot) seem to not be like that. I have one freind here locally who has every Glock there is........ he collects them, before he even shoots them he drifts the rear most of the way to the right. I know its him and so does he but he doesnt care.