scribble Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) I am trying to correct a shooting problem I have had ever since I started shooting handguns. I am constantly shooting low and left of center. I thought for the longest time that I was flinching and jerking the gun until I started working with an instructor. I can group excellent but be shooting low and left. I thought maybe my sights were off so I had several people try both of my pistols and they all shoot dead center so I thinking again it must be me. I have tried shooting with both eyes open. left only, right only one handed, but nothing seems to make a difference. I am getting very frustrated and baffled about this. The instructor thinks moving my feet might make a difference but I haven't gotten back to the range to determine this yet. I was thinking about just adjusting my sights to compensate but was told we should try and correct before compensate. O also forgot it doesn't matter if its dot or iron sight if that helps. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! Edited February 14, 2008 by cooter79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Do your groups shift when you shoot from bags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Try a search in this forum using the exact phrase "low and left". Her are a couple of threads you might look at from that search. Here and Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I went through this, slamming the trigger (overpressing) !! Try dryfiring really fast relaxed, like if you were acually shooting fast and watch what the front sight does, bet it moves slightly down and left.... Your pressing the trigger so hard that when it stops agaist the frame you are now pressing the frame down, you'll find in left handers the shots are low right. Put all of your attention on trigger control and for now try a looser grip with your strong hand (less power to your trigger finger) Until you find your prefered grip pressure, shoot what "feels" like 80-85% of your grip is on the weak hand, since this hand "is" weaker you'll acually be shooting a proper 60 weak 40 strong and not pushing so hard on the trigger (trigger finger isollation!!) Hope that helps !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I am trying to correct a shooting problem I have had ever since I started shooting handguns. I am constantly shooting low and left of center. I thought for the longest time that I was flinching and jerking the gun until I started working with an instructor. I can group excellent but be shooting low and left. I thought maybe my sights were off so I had several people try both of my pistols and they all shoot dead center so I thinking again it must be me. I have tried shooting with both eyes open. left only, right only one handed, but nothing seems to make a difference. I am getting very frustrated and baffled about this. The instructor thinks moving my feet might make a difference but I haven't gotten back to the range to determine this yet. I was thinking about just adjusting my sights to compensate but was told we should try and correct before compensate. O also forgot it doesn't matter if its dot or iron sight if that helps. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! We all "see" sights and "work" triggers slightly differently. If an adjustment is needed, do it. In time you may find that you will begin to shoot high and right. If this is the case, then you have just learned how to pull the trigger straight to the rear and smooth enough so that you are only applying enough pressure to cause the gun to fire. Your description is classic right handed shooter, making the gun fire, instead of letting it fire. I doubt the foot position makes any difference. If in doubt, try shooting sitting in a chair off hand. As someone suggested try from a bench or sandbags too. Try left handed. I'll bet your groups will open up and be low right. MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 The last time I shot from bags I seem to remember shooting low and left as well. I will try this again to see. I notice that when I dryfire i do not move the sight picture even when doing it fast and attempting to slap the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The last time I shot from bags I seem to remember shooting low and left as well. I will try this again to see. I notice that when I dryfire i do not move the sight picture even when doing it fast and attempting to slap the trigger. One easy thing to try is to have someone load a mag with a dummy round in it where you have no idea which one it is. Then shoot some normal two shot drills and see what happens when you get to the dummy round. If it's you, you'll see it. If not, you'll see that too. Dry fire doesn't do the same thing because your brain/body know there isn't going to be a bang and a bump. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Saw some of your videos and it looks like you stand pretty straight up, arms pretty much straight out so they might be a little low in relation to your line of sight. Are you sure your not looking over the top of the sights instead? One other thing that I noticed I was doing when shooting low-left and it wasn't flinching or jerking the trigger, is I was anticiparting and trying to control the recoil. Since my support (left) hand had more pressure, I would have to (tendency to) compensate with my strong(right) hand and push the sights down-left during recoil trying to make the sight track straight up and down. One thing that helped me was putting a little pressure with the left index finger against the frame, gun tracks straighter and it helps keeping from going low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) I think you got to try the dummy rounds, like Homie said you might be pushing for recoil. Make some identical rounds with spent primers and no powder. Mix them all up, and load your mags without looking, then just shoot and see what happens !!! What I did to find the problem was to shoot a target slowfire with a really loose grip, just enough to keep the gun up to your line of sight. When it fires just let it pop up in recoil as far as it wants to go and keep the trigger pinned to the back then slowly bring it back down and reset the trigger. Try not to prepare for it to fire, I tried to visualize that I was shooting a really long Dirty Harry revolver and just letting it pop up in recoil, I dont know, worked for me. Taught me to ease up and not be so tense anticipating recoil and trigger reset...the shots centered out right away... Edited February 14, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I am trying to correct a shooting problem I have had ever since I started shooting handguns. I am constantly shooting low and left of center. I thought for the longest time that I was flinching and jerking the gun until I started working with an instructor. I can group excellent but be shooting low and left. I thought maybe my sights were off so I had several people try both of my pistols and they all shoot dead center so I thinking again it must be me. I have tried shooting with both eyes open. left only, right only one handed, but nothing seems to make a difference. I am getting very frustrated and baffled about this. The instructor thinks moving my feet might make a difference but I haven't gotten back to the range to determine this yet. I was thinking about just adjusting my sights to compensate but was told we should try and correct before compensate. O also forgot it doesn't matter if its dot or iron sight if that helps. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! Chris, Just for an experiment try this. Gun unloaded, sitting at table, both hands on gun with a normal grip. Aim at some point across the room. Put elbows on table, gun is going to get heavy. Now pull trigger just to the point of break but not. Keep doing this over and over at your normal trigger pull while watching the front sight each time. I had the same exact problem and this showed me I was not pulling the trigger straight back. I could visually see my front sight moving to the left ever so slightly each time I would pull the trigger. If this is the case, easy fix. Continue doing this experiment/drill with more grip weak hand and less grip strong hand. Force yourself to pull the trigger straight back. You may have to put more of your finger in the trigger guard. When you can pull the trigger straight back without the front sight moving in any direction, your there. Hope this helps. DonT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 What I find when I have a student that shoots low and left is that they do not put their finger deep enough into the trigger. The moment the trigger breaks the pistol then goes low and left. Try putting your finger deeper into the trigger- but not so deep that you "hook" the trigger to the right again. This normally works for guys just starting out but to my embarrassment I have found that every time I have a shooting problem it was a fundemental problem in the end. It all boils down to fundamentals, every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 It is you. You are not alone. It is classic. You are gripping the gun harder in recoil...with your strong hand...."milking the grip". It will go away when you can let yourself relax your strong hand while you fire. Your weak hand should be doing all the work on holding the gun in recoil. This comes up often. There should be plenty of good info on this to be found with a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thanks for the tips guys, I will all recommendations and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 My wife is left handed and shoots with her left eye. She shoots low and right with my guns. We adjusted her sights several years ago and haven't looked back. She has made it to expert in IDPA so I guess it was alright to adjust her sights. They look funny way off the the side like that but she is a very accurate shot. I say adjust your sights and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 I have been told shooting a gun with less recoil will help the recoil anticipation so I was trying things with the 22 ruger I have and had the exact same outcome just better groups but still low and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm Try reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I have been told shooting a gun with less recoil will help the recoil anticipation so I was trying things with the 22 ruger I have and had the exact same outcome just better groups but still low and left. With the .22, take your strong hand completely off of the gun, stick your index finger in the trigger guard, and manipulate the trigger without touching anything else with your strong hand. That should convince you that it is your strong hand that is doing it. Also, you might try aligning your second finger joint sections (the "middle" part of eack finger) so that they are perfectly perpendicular to the barrel. Give a squeeze, and you should feel the pressure come straight back into your palm. This can also help reduce milking, or at least the effects of it. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallow Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 How excellent are these groups? I realize I'm in a minority here, but if your groups really are excellent ( 1-2" at 25 yards), or even very good (2-1/2 to 3" at 25 yards) just adjust your sights. In working on tightening your groups still further over time, it may turn out that you're committing one or more of the various faults that others here have mentioned, and as you correct them, your groups may migrate high and right, at which time just adjust your sights again. I'm not as experienced as most other frequent posters on the forum, but I can shoot. Question for the other shooters: is this just plain bad advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 I went to the range today and tried the mixed rounds and I do notice I drive the pistol down when breaking my shots. I tried tightening my left grip as well and it did bring them just a pinch. I suppose the driving of the gun down is causing a good portion of the problems. I can't get out to 25yds currently as there is about 2-3 ft of snow here. I can get to the indoor range but the lighting is not the greatest at 23yds as far as they go. I usually shoot at 25 ft as that is the best target lighting. first target of the day 25ft 2nd target 25ft 3rd target using my ruger mk3 22/45 I did the top and right ones. The aim point is in white. The center hole was done by the GF at 25 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Do you have adjustable or fixed sights?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Do you have adjustable or fixed sights?? The sights on the SS are adjustable and I am using a Dot on the .22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 With that group, I would adjust the sights and call it a day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 7 yards? Adjust your sight but if you are shooting for pure accuracy the groups are not tight enough and it looks a bit, kind of like a classic flinch or grip issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 It looks to me like you are shooting at a spot on the target instead of shooting your hold and letting the gun surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I know this may sound obvious, but have you tried adjusting the rear sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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